Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news

Are you jealous that others have practiced and enjoy flying formation?
Is it "airplane envy"? Your second paragraph indicates an attitude
problem.

Orval,

Hmmm. By your own analysis, these "others have practiced and enjoy flying
formation" did a lousy job, so I'm certainly not jealous of them.

As far as "airplane envy" and my so-called "attitude problem", I guess I
should feel honored that these guys chose to create an un-necessary
situation, with my father and I trying desperately to see where they were
going, and trying to make sure the two in the low wing planes didn't nail
us.

With respect to my "attitude problem", I suppose it's just a case where it
seems some people take themselves Way Too Seriously. "White flight", ten
second landing intervals, "break now!"; you guys should join the Boy Scouts
so you can practice marching in step (turns can be very difficult). I've
also heard it's fun to wear camoflauge to play paintball... (oops, there's
that damn attitude thing again! sorry...)

Roger Out!,
Harry

"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news

Are you jealous that others have practiced and enjoy flying formation?
Is it "airplane envy"? Your second paragraph indicates an attitude
problem.

Orval,

Hmmm. By your own analysis, these "others have practiced and enjoy flying
formation" did a lousy job, so I'm certainly not jealous of them.

As far as "airplane envy" and my so-called "attitude problem", I guess I
should feel honored that these guys chose to create an un-necessary
situation, with my father and I trying desperately to see where they were
going, and trying to make sure the two in the low wing planes didn't nail
us.

With respect to my "attitude problem", I suppose it's just a case where it
seems some people take themselves Way Too Seriously. "White flight", ten
second landing intervals, "break now!"; you guys should join the Boy
Scouts
so you can practice marching in step (turns can be very difficult). I've
also heard it's fun to wear camoflauge to play paintball... (oops, there's
that damn attitude thing again! sorry...)

Roger Out!,
Harry



Did you ever think that they had you in sight and knew that two were able to
enter downwind without causing a conflict and the third would fit in nicely
behind you? In my experience those that fly formation are more capable than
the pilot that can't deal with anything but the 45 degree entry to downwind
and you know the rest.

Dave Stadt wrote:
"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Are you jealous that others have practiced and enjoy flying formation?
Is it "airplane envy"? Your second paragraph indicates an attitude
problem.

Orval,

Hmmm. By your own analysis, these "others have practiced and enjoy flying
formation" did a lousy job, so I'm certainly not jealous of them.

As far as "airplane envy" and my so-called "attitude problem", I guess I
should feel honored that these guys chose to create an un-necessary
situation, with my father and I trying desperately to see where they were
going, and trying to make sure the two in the low wing planes didn't nail
us.

With respect to my "attitude problem", I suppose it's just a case where it
seems some people take themselves Way Too Seriously. "White flight", ten
second landing intervals, "break now!"; you guys should join the Boy

Scouts

so you can practice marching in step (turns can be very difficult). I've
also heard it's fun to wear camoflauge to play paintball... (oops, there's
that damn attitude thing again! sorry...)

Roger Out!,
Harry




Did you ever think that they had you in sight and knew that two were able to
enter downwind without causing a conflict and the third would fit in nicely
behind you? In my experience those that fly formation are more capable than
the pilot that can't deal with anything but the 45 degree entry to downwind
and you know the rest.





Hi guys...

Just a question - what is this 45 degree entry to downwind we keep
hearing about? I'm from the other side of the world and that's not
something I was taught - instead, like the guys from the UK, I do an
overhead join at an uncontrolled field, descending on the non-traffic
side, especially if unsure of the circuit direction. Here, most of our
smaller airfields are totally deserted, so there's no-one to observe to
determine circuit direction...

Thanks!

Chris
New Zealand

Just a question - what is this 45 degree entry to downwind we keep
hearing about? I'm from the other side of the world and that's not
something I was taught - instead, like the guys from the UK, I do an
overhead join at an uncontrolled field,

It is part of the recommended approach in the U.S., and is so commonly
used that alternative entries are upsetting to many pilots.

It really doesn't matter how you approach an airport, but it sure
helps if everyone does it the same way.

Since I fly a high-wing airplane, however, I would prefer that people
not descend upon me while I'm in the pattern. As an alternative to the
45, I would choose a mid-field crossover to the downwind, but not if
there's a NORDO aircraft in the pattern. He's expecting traffic to
enter from his right, not his left.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

It really doesn't matter how you approach an airport, but it sure
helps if everyone does it the same way.


How so?

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Just a question - what is this 45 degree entry to downwind we keep
hearing about? I'm from the other side of the world and that's not
something I was taught - instead, like the guys from the UK, I do an
overhead join at an uncontrolled field,

It is part of the recommended approach in the U.S., and is so commonly
used that alternative entries are upsetting to many pilots.

It really doesn't matter how you approach an airport, but it sure
helps if everyone does it the same way.

Since I fly a high-wing airplane, however, I would prefer that people
not descend upon me while I'm in the pattern. As an alternative to the
45, I would choose a mid-field crossover to the downwind, but not if
there's a NORDO aircraft in the pattern. He's expecting traffic to
enter from his right, not his left.

Doesn't matter if you fly with or without a radio you should expect traffic
to enter the pattern anywhere and everywhere. Why do you think NORDO
traffic would only expect traffic to enter from "his right, not his left?"



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:48:06 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote:

snip

Since I fly a high-wing airplane, however, I would prefer that people
not descend upon me while I'm in the pattern. As an alternative to the
45, I would choose a mid-field crossover to the downwind, but not if
there's a NORDO aircraft in the pattern. He's expecting traffic to
enter from his right, not his left.

Doesn't matter if you fly with or without a radio you should expect traffic
to enter the pattern anywhere and everywhere. Why do you think NORDO
traffic would only expect traffic to enter from "his right, not his left?"

Finally, someone who thinks like I do!

If you only expect (and look for) the expected, the unexpected will
get you sooner or later.

There can be an aircraft in distress (emergency) that comes into
the pattern from virtually anywhere.

There can be a pilot who's lost who blunders into a traffic
pattern / area.

An analogy might be trusting other drivers in their cars when they use
signals, merge onto freeways, etc. If you only expect them to do what
they're supposed to do (or what would be deemed logical to do), you're
asking for trouble....

Like defensive driving, defensive flying is the way to go.

Bela P. Havasreti

Finally, someone who thinks like I do!

It would help if you guys would post what airport you are based at, so
I can avoid them.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..

Since I fly a high-wing airplane, however, I would prefer that people
not descend upon me while I'm in the pattern. As an alternative to the
45, I would choose a mid-field crossover to the downwind, but not if
there's a NORDO aircraft in the pattern. He's expecting traffic to
enter from his right, not his left.

He should be expecting traffic to enter any time from anywhere, just
as you, and every competent pilot, are.

Cub Driver wrote:


Just a question - what is this 45 degree entry to downwind we keep
hearing about? I'm from the other side of the world and that's not
something I was taught - instead, like the guys from the UK, I do an
overhead join at an uncontrolled field,

It is part of the recommended approach in the U.S., and is so commonly
used that alternative entries are upsetting to many pilots.

It really doesn't matter how you approach an airport, but it sure
helps if everyone does it the same way.

Since I fly a high-wing airplane, however, I would prefer that people
not descend upon me while I'm in the pattern. As an alternative to the
45, I would choose a mid-field crossover to the downwind, but not if
there's a NORDO aircraft in the pattern. He's expecting traffic to
enter from his right, not his left.


OK, just another dumb question.. When you talk about people descending on
you in the circuit, I take it you mean they are descending while on
downwind? That sounds extremely unwise!!! I'm surprised that what we do
isn't also practised, or maybe it is but you call it something else... I
also can't bring myself to call it a pattern - sorry, I'm so used to
referring to it as a circuit, pattern sounds foreign to me :-)

Here's how we do it.... When we do an overhead join, we start 500 feet
above circuit altitude, and when ready, descend on the non-traffic side,
i.e. the upwind side - the other side of the circuit from downwind, then
when we're down to circuit altitude, we turn and fly the crosswind leg,
then, while looking for traffic we turn downwind and fly the rest
normally... I trust this doesn't come under the category of descending on
you?

No doubt this is normal, but called something else...

See ya

Chris