Tight patterns?

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern, because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?

"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern, because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?


"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base.

Abeam the numbers?

What is your altitude, and what is your altitude when you turn final,
and how far down the field do you land?

Would you do the same at my home field, which is 2800 feet long?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base.


Abeam the numbers?

Yep, why not? One sweeping constant bank turn to final from downwind.
At paved runways this is what I practice. It's essentially an engine
out manuver.


What is your altitude, and what is your altitude when you turn final,
and how far down the field do you land?

I don't know, it's all done by sight. You know it when it look right.
I get to midfield downwind at 1000 agl. I always try to be at 1000 agl
at midfield. Speed is 80 mph, flaps 20, power 15 inches. As you turn
base flaps go to 30, turning final they go to 40. No pitch changes that
way. Bank is between 20-30 degrees. You roll wings level as you come
over the numbers or maybe within the first coupla hundred feet at about
50 feet agl, the speed should still be about 75 mph. You know you
nailed it when the bank angle stays constant and you roll out over the
runway.



Would you do the same at my home field, which is 2800 feet long?

My home runway is 3800 feet long with a turnoff where another runway
crosses at 2800 feet. I need to add power to get to the turnoff in a
calm wind. If I am landing on a dirt strip I usually practice landing
as short as possible. This means going out to a mile final and slowing
to 55 mph. I aim for the first 50 feet of the runway. With just me and
40 gallons I can get stopped in 450 feet of total runway used in no wind
at a 5000 foot DA. I don't need no stinkin' Cub.

What type of air speeds are you talking about? You doing 60kts, they're
doing 100kts? You land and blow a tire, they have to go around? You still
haven't explained how it is safe to cut someone off in the pattern, just
because you don't like the way they are flying?

"Newps" wrote in message
news:ZwGNb.63554$5V2.70987@attbi_s53...
He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern,
because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?


"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

lardsoup wrote:

What type of air speeds are you talking about? You doing 60kts, they're
doing 100kts? You land and blow a tire, they have to go around? You still
haven't explained how it is safe to cut someone off in the pattern, just
because you don't like the way they are flying?

It's not cutting anybody off, poor choice of words. I will not follow
you simply because the first time I came into the pattern I got behind
you. Now if there are others in the pattern I may have to follow you,
but if it's just the two of us or the others are no factor I ain't going
out to a two mile final simply because you do. Airspeed? In a normal
situation I slow to 80 mph IAS by the time I get to midfield downwind.
If anybody lands and blows a tire the rest of the people go around.
What's the point?



"Newps" wrote in message
news:ZwGNb.63554$5V2.70987@attbi_s53...

He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:


You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern,

because

you don't like the way they're flying, safe?



"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

I'm thinking maybe it's a good idea you have. Why bother with other
airplanes that bug me. Just do my own thing. There's no law against it,
right? Just wondering how you self announce in the pattern so I get it
right. Is it something like, "ABC traffic, N12123 downwind 32, number 2
behind, ah hell, I'm number one, base 32, ABC"
"Newps" wrote What's the point?

lardsoup wrote:
I'm thinking maybe it's a good idea you have. Why bother with other
airplanes that bug me. Just do my own thing. There's no law against it,
right? Just wondering how you self announce in the pattern so I get it
right. Is it something like, "ABC traffic, N12123 downwind 32, number 2
behind, ah hell, I'm number one, base 32, ABC"

No, I'll ask him. Something to the effect of..."N123 you gonna turn
base at the same place as last time?" He will say yes and then I will
say that I am starting my base now. Never a problem. If he were to say
something like "Nope, this will be a short approach." Then I'll follow.
Just because I have the misfortune to follow you for the first time
around the pattern doesn't mean it has to stay that way for the
remaining landings. They may have a good reason to go out that far.
Most of the time, from my perspective, they don't. Whatever. They have
to do what they are comfortable with. That doesn't mean I have to do it
too.



"Newps" wrote What's the point?

80 kts huh? I like to fly fast. Even in the pattern. Learned that during
the instrument training at BIG airports. You won't mind if I blow past you
at 100kts on the downwind. I mean why should I be stuck behind a slow poke.
Sure, I'll tell you I'm coming. Or maybe not. No reg against not using the
radio. Right?