CBS "News" strikes AGAIN

Forget the teachers, they are just cannon fodder - easy come, easy go... Do
some research on NYC union protected school janitors, if you want to see
some eye popping incomes...
denny
"Rosspilot" wrote in message
...
Around here, the
going rate is around 50K for substitutes and over 70K to start for
regulars.

Teachers here have it made. Same with the cops. The suburbs of New
York
are
great deals for those two union members.
www.Rosspilot.com

According to http://www.nycenet.edu/offices/dhr/payroll/ssct.aspx, the
base
starting pay for NYC teachers is $39K. They don't get up to $70K until
they've been there for 20 years..


I am aware of that. I said the NYC *suburbs* . . . Suffolk, Nassau,
Westchester, Rockland, Bergen, Fairfield, some others . . . NOT New York
City.
www.Rosspilot.com

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
Howyd!

In article ,
Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Jordan" wrote in message
...

If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too
brain
dead to endure and is finished.

That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
$100,000 an episode...

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education"
is
now BY ROTE.

Bull****. You don't even bother to slip in a weasely "most"; you simply
tar all teachers with your calumny.

Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.


I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability
to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about
their
students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so
nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it works.

Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if
you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.


yours,
Michael



Best,

Tom

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
Howdy!

In article ,
Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote:
I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.

It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
as loud as the rest.

Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.

Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Teachers-are-
worthless-pieces-of-****. I suppose your opinion here is one of an
expert in the field.

You just validated my position. Thanks!!

On 19 Jan 2004 00:23:59 GMT, ospam (Rosspilot)
wrote:

Around here, the
going rate is around 50K for substitutes and over 70K to start for regulars.

Where's around here?

Teacher salaries are published and a matter of public record. Your
example sounds quite high. I'm in CT, my wife teaches elementary
school with a master's, which adds about 3-4k/yr. at her pay step,
has been teaching 7 years and makes about 48k. The three union
janitors in her school make more than she does. G

Starting salary in her district is about $32k, CT requires teachers to
have (2) bachelor's degrees, or a master's to start. If the teacher
starts without a master's, they must start earning it within 5 years
and complete it within 8. CT is in the top five pay scales in the
USA, and her "inner city" school district is in the top 15% of CT,
with regard to pay.

Substitutes in her city are provided by a Kelly Services style temp
agency, are required to have at least a bachelor's degree, and make
about $100 a day.

I'm not complaining, she left the corporate world to teach, for her
own reasons. But facts are facts, and I simply wish to put verifiable
data out there.

Thanks,
Barry

Absolutely.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Judah" wrote in message
...
Hey listen... Compared to CBS News, my little hyperbolic illustration
was totally within limits!

Besides, even if they make $50K a year, that still pales in comparison
to $100k per episode or per game.

Jealous?

My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my daughter
will start Kindergarden next fall.

Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
presented to them.

Thanks.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
snip
Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're
all in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the
young minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me
experience.


I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose
ability to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a
damn about their students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote
learning" is not so nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it
works.

Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be
if you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully
common.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.


yours,
Michael



Best,

Tom

"Judah" wrote in message
...
My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my
daughter
will start Kindergarden next fall.

Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
presented to them.

1) Avoid public schools
2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method
3) Find some good material about human epistemology
4) Find some good works on critical thinking
5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
(note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
perform memorization)

There is more, but this should hold you for a year or so. Note, too, that
very little of this material is found in the conventional literature of
education.

If you need some sources, leave you email address.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ...

2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method

So you can know why you want to avoid it.


5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
(note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
perform memorization)

Also note that the ability to think abstractly is a developmental stage that
typcially happens rather late. Trying to cram abstract thinking into kids
who aren't developmentally ready for it isn't any better than rote learning.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method

So you can know why you want to avoid it.

And why is that?



5) Find some good works about abstract thinking and concept formation
(note: this teaches children to make associations, rather then just
perform memorization)

Also note that the ability to think abstractly is a developmental stage
that
typcially happens rather late.

Kids are good at forming concepts from the time they're about two or three.
So how do _you_ determine when they're ready?

Trying to cram abstract thinking into kids
who aren't developmentally ready for it isn't any better than rote
learning.

If they're ready for learning (other than potty training and the like) they
can start with easy concepts.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.


I don't know about that. I graduated from a public school and went to MIT
and did very well there. Both my kids went to public school and while not
all there teachers were great, most of them were. The problem now is not
the teachers, many of whom have a huge amount of experience and good ability
to teach, but the increasing reliance on endless series of tests to satisfy
federal and state requirements. Test scores are the Holy Grail and to get
good scores on the tests requires much more of the rote learning you don't
like.

Instead of knocking public education why don't you get involved and make a
difference?