Offering the Middle-digit Salute in Response to Brazil

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:30:57 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in Message-Id:
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

The article contained this bit of information:

"Brazil's new requirement that American visitors submit to
photographs and fingerprinting ... which is how Brazilians are
welcomed to the U.S. under new security rules."

I would say that the U.S. instituted practice of fingerprinting and
photographing airline passengers entering our country may spark
similar indignities for U.S. passengers entering foreign countries.


But why just for US passengers? The US didn't single out Brazil or any
other individual country, the requirement applies to all passengers not
otherwise documented.

What does your phrase "not otherwise documented" mean? Other than
what? Aren't all international travelers required to possess a
Passport?

Are you saying that ALL airline passengers entering the US are
currently being fingerprinted and photographed? If so, this is the
first I've heard of that practice being instituted.

Your reply implies that you believe that Brazil has "singled out" US
passengers for fingerprinting and photographing. Are you able to
provide a credible citation substantiating that contention? The
quoted article's lack of explicitly stating that Brazil is requiring
fingerprinting and photographing _solely_ of US passengers is
ambiguous IMO.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

What does your phrase "not otherwise documented" mean? Other than
what? Aren't all international travelers required to possess a
Passport?


No, not all international travelers entering the US are required to possess
a passport.



Are you saying that ALL airline passengers entering the US are
currently being fingerprinted and photographed? If so, this is the
first I've heard of that practice being instituted.


No, I'm not saying that ALL airline passengers entering the US are currently
being fingerprinted and photographed. Many nations are exempt, but Brazil
isn't one of them. There are several requirements to be exempt. The nation
must issue passports that can be scanned by machine, they must also
''demonstrate that adequate safeguards against fraudulent use of their
passports are in place.'' Forged documents are apparently easy to come by
in Brazil.



Your reply implies that you believe that Brazil has "singled out" US
passengers for fingerprinting and photographing. Are you able to
provide a credible citation substantiating that contention?


"Brazil began on Jan. 1 to fingerprint and photograph all American citizens
arriving here in response to Washington's new policy, which went into effect
on Jan. 5. A judge in a remote state said the action was necessary because
U.S. policy was ''xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors of the Nazis,''
and the Foreign Ministry endorsed his order, arguing that ''reciprocity is a
basic element of foreign relations.''


http://www.iht.com/articles/124703.html

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:45:35 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in Message-Id:
. net:

Forged documents are apparently easy to come by
in Brazil.

The NYT article to which you kindly provided the URL below states:

"American officials said that Brazil is second only to Mexico in
what are known as "expedited removals" because of false
documentation or misrepresentation at U.S. ports of entry"

False documentation seems a good criterion to apply to requiring
fingerprinting and photographing of international visitors.

It would seem that Brazil's emotional response to the change in US
policy may negatively impact Brazil's Carnival revenues. Talk about,
"out of the frying pan ...."

Brazil may want to rethink their strategy, and consider instituting
anti passport forgery measures and scannable passports. A progressive
country would proffer reasonable solutions not direct confrontation,
IMO.

It is an unfortunate coincidence that our neighbors and allies in the
western hemisphere are going to be most affected by the new US policy
just when we need their support in international affairs. It would be
a magnanimously conciliatory gesture for the US to provide some
expertise to our neighbors in overcoming the technical issues, and it
might help mitigate the international perception of xenophobia. But
that would take a President who valued the support of his allies...

--

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have
a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the
impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- Governor George W. Bush

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not
need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing
about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me
why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an
explanation. "
~ George Bush Jr. as reported in the Washington Post

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

The NYT article to which you kindly provided the URL below states:


It was the International Herald Tribune.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:07:15 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in Message-Id:
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

The NYT article to which you kindly provided the URL below states:


It was the International Herald Tribune.


You'll note that the story carries the byline: "Larry Rohter NYT"

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:07:15 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in Message-Id:
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

The NYT article to which you kindly provided the URL below states:


It was the International Herald Tribune.


You'll note that the story carries the byline: "Larry Rohter NYT"

I'm pretty sure that the Int'l Herald-Tribune is a joint project of the
NYT & one of the Washington,DC papers (the Post?).

So you could both be right, in a way...

Brian.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

You'll note that the story carries the byline: "Larry Rohter NYT"


You'll note the URL does not lead to the New York Times site.

The NYT article to which you kindly provided the URL below states:


It was the International Herald Tribune.


The online news services often scout out other papers and sources (even TV
stations) that offer the same story without having to register. They all pick
them up from the same AP or other newswire sources, but YahooNews and others
try to find a publisher who spares you from having to register your personal
data every time you click a link to read a story.

Larry Dighera wrote:
snip

Your .sig:

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have
a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- Governor George W. Bush

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the
impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- Governor George W. Bush

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- Governor George W. Bush

"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not
need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing
about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me
why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an
explanation. "
~ George Bush Jr. as reported in the Washington Post

I'm not fond of some of the things the current administration has done
(I decline to state my overall opinion, either way), but I've seen all
of these quotes before. It was about 1999 (I was still living in
Dayton), and they were all attributed to Al Gore. They all belong on
snopes.com. There are some good ones out there, though, if you want to
spark conversation. I don't like getting involved in political
discussion (unless it's topical), but I really hate seeing bad facts, on
any side of the debate.

--Dave

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:30:57 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in Message-Id:
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

The article contained this bit of information:

"Brazil's new requirement that American visitors submit to
photographs and fingerprinting ... which is how Brazilians are
welcomed to the U.S. under new security rules."

I would say that the U.S. instituted practice of fingerprinting and
photographing airline passengers entering our country may spark
similar indignities for U.S. passengers entering foreign countries.


But why just for US passengers? The US didn't single out Brazil or any
other individual country, the requirement applies to all passengers not
otherwise documented.

What does your phrase "not otherwise documented" mean? Other than
what? Aren't all international travelers required to possess a
Passport?

Are you saying that ALL airline passengers entering the US are
currently being fingerprinted and photographed? If so, this is the
first I've heard of that practice being instituted.

Your reply implies that you believe that Brazil has "singled out" US
passengers for fingerprinting and photographing. Are you able to
provide a credible citation substantiating that contention? The
quoted article's lack of explicitly stating that Brazil is requiring
fingerprinting and photographing _solely_ of US passengers is
ambiguous IMO.




First, the US is photographing and fingerprinting all foreign nationals that
are required to have a Visa to enter the USA. Brazil is included in that
group. Brazil is ONLY photographing & fingerprinting US citizens.

Is this fair? Sure it is. Brazil is a sovereign nation and can control their
borders any way they choose. Is it being done because we are doing it to
them and not for security reasons? Sure it is, but again it is their country
and they can do what they want to do at its' borders.

If anyone as an American citizen doesn't like it don't go to Brazil.

Gig Giacona
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR