Airspeed of military planes

"it depends"..

When I was flying the B-1, we would accelerate to 360 knots on climb out..
Coming back down into traffic pattern it was 300knts below 10K
Our flap / gear speed is 240knt (the buzzer comes on below 240knts if the
flaps are not out)

But for low level in IR training routes, we planned 540knt, 500-1500ft AGL
Those IR routes are not in MOA or restricted airspace, but can be, and they
are on the VFR charts for a reason.

BT

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.

Hi there BT.

A couple questions if you'll indulge us.

At 540 kts and 1000AGL, I'd be damn worried about hitting a GA spam
can. I know the training routes are on the charts, but a lot of GA
pilots don't pay attention to those.

I assume most aircraft have a military version of TCAD/TCAS? Does
this give suficient heads up to keep separation from the slow moving
GA traffic?

Thanks,
Nathan


On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:41:45 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

"it depends"..

When I was flying the B-1, we would accelerate to 360 knots on climb out..
Coming back down into traffic pattern it was 300knts below 10K
Our flap / gear speed is 240knt (the buzzer comes on below 240knts if the
flaps are not out)

But for low level in IR training routes, we planned 540knt, 500-1500ft AGL
Those IR routes are not in MOA or restricted airspace, but can be, and they
are on the VFR charts for a reason.

BT

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
ws.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.

Hi there BT.

A couple questions if you'll indulge us.

At 540 kts and 1000AGL, I'd be damn worried about hitting a GA spam
can. I know the training routes are on the charts, but a lot of GA
pilots don't pay attention to those.

I've dodged more than one or two GA aircraft. We really had to be careful
during crop dusting season.. we'd be at 500ft and they would be below us..
the local Crop dusters knew our routes and would post NOTAM equivelant for
us when there would be working in the route structure.

I assume most aircraft have a military version of TCAD/TCAS? Does
this give suficient heads up to keep separation from the slow moving
GA traffic?

NOPE.. none on the military aircraft when I was flying. Some of the
"fighters" may sweep scan from time to time for GA aircraft.. but not
capable to do that in the B1.

It's called See and Be Seen.. proper use of the Mark1 Eyeball and proper
scanning techniques.

Like I said.. I've seen a few.. had to alter course a couple of times.. but
nothing really close. At least the ones I saw.

BT

"BTIZ"

wrote:Like I said.. I've seen a few.. had to alter course a couple of times..
but
nothing really close. At least the ones I saw.

I was about 50 miles behind a scud-running Stearman, who was inbound to Iron
Mountain at 400 AGL. He called out that a 'black shape' just passed below him.
He didn't see it coming or going. Always wanted to ask: how low do you go?
Thx,
VL

depends on the route structure.. some are limited to 500ft.. some places
1000ft and some places.. 0.. but flying at 0 is tough... most times in the
restricted areas and not the IR routes.. we stay between 200-500

I'm guessing if a "black shape" passed below him,.. and scud running.. that
a rather large shadow passed above him and he thought something was below
him

where is Iron Mountain.. I'm thinking the Upper Peninsula of Michigan? Could
have been a B-52 on approach.. but there were some training areas up there
that they would get down to about 500ft or so.

BT

"MLenoch" wrote in message
...
"BTIZ"

wrote:Like I said.. I've seen a few.. had to alter course a couple of
times..
but
nothing really close. At least the ones I saw.

I was about 50 miles behind a scud-running Stearman, who was inbound to
Iron
Mountain at 400 AGL. He called out that a 'black shape' just passed below
him.
He didn't see it coming or going. Always wanted to ask: how low do you go?
Thx,
VL

"BTIZ"

wrote:where is Iron Mountain.. I'm thinking the Upper Peninsula of Michigan?

Yes. It wasn't near any AFBs.

Coulda been above him......we don't know anymore today.

Thx,
VL

"MLenoch" wrote in message
...

wrote:where is Iron Mountain.. I'm thinking the Upper Peninsula of
Michigan?

Yes. It wasn't near any AFBs.


I suppose that depends on when this happened and how you define "near".
Iron Mountain is about 44 miles southwest of the former K.I. Sawyer AFB.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:56:39 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote in Message-Id: 7txQb.59481$zs4.25455@fed1read01:

It's called See and Be Seen.. proper use of the Mark1 Eyeball and proper
scanning techniques.

Unfortunately, F-16s are incapable of displaying a landing light in
flight, so their conspicuity is greatly reduced. Worse than that is
the inability of the GA flight to successfully avoid a high-speed
low-leval military flight by the time it is perceptible in his
windscreen.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:51:55 GMT, Nathan Young
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I assume most aircraft have a military version of TCAD/TCAS? Does
this give suficient heads up to keep separation from the slow moving
GA traffic?

Think again. Military pilots flying in excess of 250 knots below
10,000' not only lack TCAD/TCAS, but are NOT REQUIRED to employ
they're on-board radar (which you and I purchased) to scan for GA
traffic! When a GA flight is disintegrated by a meteoric F-16, the
airman (ir)responsible for the "mishap" is given a verbal reprimand!
Unfortunately, it's impossible for a GA pilot to avoid a high-speed
F-16 on a collision course; by the time the traffic is perceptible in
the windscreen, there is inadequate time to maneuver clear. The FAA
has abrogated their responsibility to provide a safe NAS, in favor of
renegade military aviation.


--
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while
bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
ws.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.



On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:41:45 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote in Message-Id: 9ImQb.59286$zs4.54931@fed1read01:

"it depends"..

When I was flying the B-1, we would accelerate to 360 knots on climb out..
Coming back down into traffic pattern it was 300knts below 10K
Our flap / gear speed is 240knt (the buzzer comes on below 240knts if the
flaps are not out)

But for low level in IR training routes, we planned 540knt, 500-1500ft AGL
Those IR routes are not in MOA or restricted airspace, but can be, and they
are on the VFR charts for a reason.

BT




Oh, you mean like the military pilot who, on November 16, 2000, lead
his flight in excess of 450 knots through busy Miami Class B and Tampa
C airspace without a clearance ending in a midair collision with a
Cessna 172 under positive air traffic control and its ATP rated flight
instructor pilot scattered over four acres of golf course?* The
Associated Press reported that the military found verbal reprimand to
be appropriate reprimand for the irresponsible conduct of the lead
airman whose unbelievable hubris left the Cessna pilot's daughter an
orphan.


*
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...A028A &akey=1