Another Addition to the Rec.Aviation Rogue's Gallery!

The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
bottom of each. But publish member's pictures and bitter complaints just
poured in. The shear number of the mean spirited comments was overwhelming
and dis-heartening for this caring for flyers program.

I thought we had a band of brothers all supporting and sharing our love of
the skies. How else can we get into the skies except with our planes? I was
surprised by the original instigator that told me at Oshkosh that he ignored
any thread after about 4 messages as it was then it went off topic. Yet the
discussion has gone over 100 messages.

No one complains about the excessive XXXZoomerXXX messages which should have
been dropped by BOTH sides many years ago. They make good reading but do
little to promote aviation.

Is there a bunch of RAHer's than are jealous that some members do more than
just fly? That they have a way to support their passion?

I suppose that my signature is out of place as well as I ask for articles to
publish in the Safety Section of the Experimenter.

By the way, I'd be tickled pink that no one used the Emergency Aircraft
Repair facilities at Oshkosh. But just like the motel, it is there when you
need it.

--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
or

Always looking for articles for the Experimenter soon to be Sport Pilot


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:cJuQb.137501$I06.1228700@attbi_s01...
Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
work:-)).

Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.

My problem is that my days are incredibly disjointed, yet filled to
over-flowing. As a result, I'll spend an hour adding someone's pix to the
gallery -- in 5 minute increments, spread over half a day. For me to
actually remember doing this a week or a month later is difficult. Then
for
me to then remember to post an update HERE a week or a month later is
almost
impossible to imagine.

This was the reason for the frequent updates -- I simply didn't want to
forget someone's addition.

Now, true, I can do like Sydney (and others) have suggested, and paste the
person's name, etc., into a text file, for future updates. But that just
adds one more level of complexity I really don't need to an endeavor that
nets me nothing but ever-diminishing personal satisfaction.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:54:56 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
as the problem.

Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,

Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with posting non
commercial items on a commercial site.

I have my own dot come, but as I have nothing to sell, no adds, and
only personal *stuff* or local EAA chapter *stuff*, it's a non
commercial dot com.

However to those commercial sites that host charitable, or non
commercial adventures without adds there should be no problem.


Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling
along)
I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to
upload
to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.

It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but
I

I have difficulty seeing how it could be painted that way by any one
who looks at it.

Many commercial sites host user sites and although the users are non
commercial, the site is under the commercial sites dot com.

We have several here. Some put adds on the users sites as part of the
TOS even though they are non commercial ventures.

*do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the
Rogue's
Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:

As long as there is a distinction between the commercial part of the
site and the gallery there should be no slippery slope.

commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups
full
of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
newsgroups, and it destroys the group.

I see a large distinction between a commercial site hosting a non
commercial venture and those of a commercial nature.


Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best
of
intentions.

Jay, those of us who understand, need no explanation and those who
don't, never will no matter how much explanation you give.

Some probably would find fault even if it were a completely non
commercial site, just due to the repetition.

For the sensitive types, you could just make a weekly announcement
although for them monthly would probably be too much.


I take care of four sites (all non commercial) and keeping them
up-to-date takes quite a few hours. Plus on my own I get to practice
new programs and techniques. For me, the programming is more play.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:02:41 GMT, Cy Galley wrote:

The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
bottom of each.

A signature is - by default - never a problem if correctly seperated and
trimmed to 4 lines.

your signature is not correctly seperated (abnd you are top posting and not
trimming the text to only what you are referring to).

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:02:41 GMT, "Cy Galley"
wrote:

The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
bottom of each. But publish member's pictures and bitter complaints just
poured in. The shear number of the mean spirited comments was overwhelming
and dis-heartening for this caring for flyers program.

I thought we had a band of brothers all supporting and sharing our love of
the skies. How else can we get into the skies except with our planes? I was
surprised by the original instigator that told me at Oshkosh that he ignored
any thread after about 4 messages as it was then it went off topic. Yet the
discussion has gone over 100 messages.

No one complains about the excessive XXXZoomerXXX messages which should have
been dropped by BOTH sides many years ago. They make good reading but do
little to promote aviation.

How about NOTHING to promote aviation?


Is there a bunch of RAHer's than are jealous that some members do more than
just fly? That they have a way to support their passion?


Yep. Green with jealousy Cy. Your comments are right on line. What
your mistake is that you assumed a "band of brothers" here. Far from
it. More like a "band of backstabbers." They have nothing else to
talk about because the average poster here is not building, they are
not flying, they are not experimenting, they don't even know how to
build anything. In fact, most of them don't even know how to FLY!

I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.

BWB

"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
...

I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.

BWB

Am we to conclude from your above snipped comments that you feel those who
are not building, or owning or piloting really shouldn't be here?

You say, "The rest are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all
bad.."

What part IS bad about those of us, who for whatever reason, have yet to
achieve our goals of building, or owning, or piloting still reading and
posting a question or comment? Is this group so exclusive that the
uninitiated are unwelcome?

In my case, I've waited 35 years to be in a position to start my lessons.
This fact has not diminished my interest in aviation related NGs. Should
all of us "wantabes" feel obligated to remain on the outside? Maybe you'd
prefer a NG with certificate numbers as the requirement to log in!

If I sound somewhat offended by your remarks, you are reading me correctly.

Gary (thinking of starting the rec.aviation.wantabe group) Kasten

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:13:48 -0600, "VideoGuy" gkasten at brick dot
net wrote:


"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
.. .

I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.

BWB

Am we to conclude from your above snipped comments that you feel those who
are not building, or owning or piloting really shouldn't be here?

You say, "The rest are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all
bad.."

What part IS bad about those of us, who for whatever reason, have yet to
achieve our goals of building, or owning, or piloting still reading and
posting a question or comment? Is this group so exclusive that the
uninitiated are unwelcome?

In my case, I've waited 35 years to be in a position to start my lessons.
This fact has not diminished my interest in aviation related NGs. Should
all of us "wantabes" feel obligated to remain on the outside? Maybe you'd
prefer a NG with certificate numbers as the requirement to log in!

If I sound somewhat offended by your remarks, you are reading me correctly.

Gary (thinking of starting the rec.aviation.wantabe group) Kasten

I offend everybody, not just you. Don't feel unique. I don't express
myself well as I get older. I have little time for novices in any
field where I've spent a lifetime becoming an expert. But, that's
just me. I'm not saying that I'm right. I just have a zero
tolerances level for people who don't know how to fly, don't know how
to build, don't know what they want.

But then I was always lucky. I started flying in 1957 because I knew
I was destined to do so. I knew I wanted to be a physicist when I was
in the 7th grade. In the Universities I never could understand why
there were people running around wasting lots of mommy and daddy's
money who knew nothing about what they wanted to become or what they
wanted out of life. It was alien to me.

As a young CFI 35 years ago I enjoyed teaching people what an aileron
is and what it does. I just got tired somewhere along the way with
the people who wouldn't try to put forth their best efforts on their
own to learn and become the best that they could be.

I don't accept your excuse for waiting 35 years to do something you
wanted to do all of your life. I feel sorry for you. I feel that you
have been a lost soul for some reason. I would have killed to fly. I
had no choice. I had no choice in becoming a nuclear physicist
either. I was born knowing how to factor a quadratic equation.

So, I was luckier than most, I'm sorry. I guess it was always easier
for me since I knew EXACTLY what I wanted out of life. To this day I
have no time because I want so much, and I'm getting old. Now that
****es me off. But, I oil paint each day. I fly my helicopter, I fly
my airplanes, I fly my RC airplanes and helicopters as much as I can.
I fly my Snobird gyroplane. I go snow skiing as much as I can. I
have a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-11 that goes 200 mph and a new 2004 Corvette
that I drive like I just stole them...dirtbikes, ATV's a
snowmobiles... The list makes me nauseous. I can't possibly even get
to it all.

There is no rest for the unholy.

I don't even have time to come in here and post much anymore which I
like to do just to torque off all the anonymous cowards.

But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB

"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
...
But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB

Bob,

Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
"status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.

As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
maybe you have the right idea. Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
they would have nothing worth adding. But obviously, you would have to be
the judge on that.

Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten

VideoGuy wrote:

"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
...

But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB


Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)


Bob,

Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
"status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.

As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
maybe you have the right idea. Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
they would have nothing worth adding. But obviously, you would have to be
the judge on that.

Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten

Jerry Springer wrote:

Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)

He's been known by that nickname on and off the net for at least ten years. It
might as well *be* his born name.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:46:29 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:



VideoGuy wrote:

"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
...

But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB


Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)



Why, it must be BOB!

Ha Ha

BWB

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:06:15 -0600, "VideoGuy" gkasten at brick dot
net wrote:


"Badwater Bill" wrote in message
. ..
But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB

Bob,

Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
"status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.

As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
maybe you have the right idea.

I just did for about a year. The morons wore me down as they will
again.

Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
they would have nothing worth adding.

Oh, it's not that, it's that the boneheads wear you down. If someone
is legitimate and has a real question, I don't mind chiming in. It's
just that there is little of that here. You might have caught my post
on how to paint that fabric somewhere today. That guy was legitimate.
If that were what this ng was mostly about many of those with vast
experience who left long ago would still be here because they too
might pick up a simple technique to help them.

The trouble is, you have to wade through a vast sea of crap. It
reminds me of a million square mile ocean that is only 3 inches deep.
When you find a cavity that is a foot deep, you think you've hit pay
dirt.

I only post here nowadays for my own entertainment, not to learn
anything. The transfer of knowledge has always been mostly one way
for me. And, that's too bad too because there are people who are
really interested and who really are worthy of helping. You, might be
one of them. It's just that the assholes get in the way of that.

I had an ATP in my 30's and seven flight instructor ratings. Now I
have about 10,000 hours in balloons, helicopters, gliders,
ultralights, hang gliders, airplanes and gyros, plus a Ph.D. in
physics. When some anonymous coward insults me as I try to post here
and convey some meaning to a sea of mediocrity, it just gets to the
point that it ain't worth it.

I burned out on this ng long ago and I'll leave again, soon. Probably
tomorrow. I'm just stuck inside today because it's too cold to go
outside and fly anything that's fun. I wanted to fly my new electric
hummingbird helicopter today but it's just too damn cold to go to the
park. So, all of you had to put up with me. Ha Ha

I liked that guy Jay's website. That was fun to see. I sent him a
bunch of the airplanes I've been fortunate enough to fly in my life.
There is one picture I really like of my Jantar 15 meter sailplane. I
forgot to send him one of my Lark while I was on a pressure breath
system at 30,000 feet. I'll try and find that baby and get it to him.
I held a camera in front of me in the cockpit. The insides of the
canopy were frozen over with moisture from my breath. I was flying on
an electric gyro with a special clearance into class A airspace that
day. I was still going up at 2000 feet per minute in wave lift when I
had to abort because the damn wind would freeze over as fast as I
could clear it with the back of my glove (on my hand). Damn, I wish I
could find that one.



BWB




But obviously, you would have to be
the judge on that.

Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten