AIRNAV not publishing fuel prices...

(Victor) wrote in
om:

... of new FBOs. Apparently they will only publish prices for FBOs
that have a subscription with them.

The same holds true of ANY FBO (fuel or repair). I've already noticed
that their lists of airport services is getting smaller and smaller.
It's really sad.

--
John Godwin
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT from email address)

John Godwin wrote:
(Victor) wrote in
om:


... of new FBOs. Apparently they will only publish prices for FBOs
that have a subscription with them.


The same holds true of ANY FBO (fuel or repair). I've already noticed
that their lists of airport services is getting smaller and smaller.
It's really sad.


Fuel prices at most of the airports within 50 miles of me are listed. I'm not
sure that all of them have a "subscription" with Airnav.

In a previous article, Tyler said:
Fuel prices at most of the airports within 50 miles of me are listed. I'm not
sure that all of them have a "subscription" with Airnav.

Last year, AirNav contacted me (as representative of my flying club) and
gave me a year to pony up some extremely high listing fee or get dropped
from their listing. Checking the fact that in the previous month only one
person had come to our club web site through the AirNav listing (versus
10-20 a day through Google) we declined to be listed.

I suspect your local FBOs are probably in their 1 year waiting period.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the
usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody
thinks of complaining."

Last year, AirNav contacted me (as representative of my flying club) and
gave me a year to pony up some extremely high listing fee or get dropped
from their listing. Checking the fact that in the previous month only one
person had come to our club web site through the AirNav listing (versus
10-20 a day through Google) we declined to be listed.

Paulo (Airnav's webmaster) did the same with us, and we ponied up.

He has a great website, and I use it almost daily for one thing or another.
I think their listing fee works out to something less than 60 cents a day --
something I was glad to pay for such a valuable service.

For a flying club I suppose only "click-throughs" matter. FBO owners,
however, need to be looking at their listing from an exposure standpoint.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:go9Sb.50241$U%5.270242@attbi_s03...

He has a great website, and I use it almost daily for one thing or another.
I think their listing fee works out to something less than 60 cents a day --
something I was glad to pay for such a valuable service.

I think its utility will be a lot less valuable once the "free"
period has expired for all of the GA businesses. The beauty of the
original site was that it had all available info about FBOs and fuel
prices around the country and all of the info came directly from the
horses mouths (us). Once the site is reduced to info about only
businesses that paid up, it ceases to be the all encompassing,
one-stop-shopping resource that it once was. I know more GA business
owners who have declined to pony up, than those who have.

One other issue I have with Airnav's new direction is what will
Paulo do about a crappy business that offers poor service or rips off
customers? If they pay their advertising fee, do they get negative
comments removed from their listing? If not, why would they pay? And
if that were the case, how would we find out about them?

I know running Airnav costs money, I just think this new direction
kills off the core of what made Airnav the best aviation site on the
Internet. I'd rather see banner advertising to pay the bills.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

One other issue I have with Airnav's new direction is what will
Paulo do about a crappy business that offers poor service or rips off
customers? If they pay their advertising fee, do they get negative
comments removed from their listing? If not, why would they pay?

I've wondered about that myself. Actually, I've always wondered how Paulo
has survived putting negative comments on his website, without getting sued.

There are some pretty graphic and acidic posts about some businesses.
Someone with a mouth-piece and deep pockets could make Paulo's life very
uncomfortable.

Right after we bought the hotel, I found a bad review of our place on
AirNav. It was, of course (!), from before we bought the place, and was a
really nasty one, written by a guy who claimed that he was "told by a
line-guy to avoid the place."

Paulo of course removed it from his site when he heard we were the new
owners, but THAT'S the kind of third-hand slander that could really get him
in hot water, IMHO.

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house." Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Is Paulo liable for maintaining a forum where other people can post unedited
comments?

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:IQeSb.51817$U%5.286038@attbi_s03...
One other issue I have with Airnav's new direction is what will
Paulo do about a crappy business that offers poor service or rips off
customers? If they pay their advertising fee, do they get negative
comments removed from their listing? If not, why would they pay?

I've wondered about that myself. Actually, I've always wondered how Paulo
has survived putting negative comments on his website, without getting
sued.

There are some pretty graphic and acidic posts about some businesses.
Someone with a mouth-piece and deep pockets could make Paulo's life very
uncomfortable.

Right after we bought the hotel, I found a bad review of our place on
AirNav. It was, of course (!), from before we bought the place, and was a
really nasty one, written by a guy who claimed that he was "told by a
line-guy to avoid the place."

Paulo of course removed it from his site when he heard we were the new
owners, but THAT'S the kind of third-hand slander that could really get
him
in hot water, IMHO.

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house." Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:IQeSb.51817$U%5.286038@attbi_s03...

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house." Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.


Don't get me wrong. I think that Paulo has done an incredible job
with Airnav. I tell anyone who will listen that it is the best
aviation site on the web. I also think he should make a buck on this
venture (lots of them, actually). I just think that his current
strategy will degrade the quality of the site.

There are lots of good mom & pop FBOs that are run on a shoestring
and don't do any advertising. That doesn't make them bad. You might
be content to avoid anyone who does not pay for an Airnav listing, but
if half of the FBOs disappear from the site, will it be as useful as
it once was? I don't think so. Ultimately, it's Paulo's call.
Personally, I'd be glad to pay an annual subscription fee to access
Airnav. It's a valuable resource to me.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.
Accurate information will disappear. I think he should sell ads.
That's it. Or perhaps charge a subscription, though I question if all
us pilots would fork over anything.

I for one do not change my routes to obtain cheap gas. I stop where
convenient. At lunch I want a resturant on the field, if not I want to
borrow a courtesy car and go to a cafe. For evening stop I want a
hotel that will pick me up and drop me off. I don't want to navigate a
rental car to/from the hotel or pay the rental car fee. I only rent a
car when I need to do business or sightseeing nearby. I do shop gas
around my nearby airport, I know where the cheap gas is near here. The
service is of limited value to me. But I do know that others differ
and plan their flights based on it.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:IQeSb.51817$U%5.286038@attbi_s03...
One other issue I have with Airnav's new direction is what will
Paulo do about a crappy business that offers poor service or rips off
customers? If they pay their advertising fee, do they get negative
comments removed from their listing? If not, why would they pay?

I've wondered about that myself. Actually, I've always wondered how Paulo
has survived putting negative comments on his website, without getting sued.

There are some pretty graphic and acidic posts about some businesses.
Someone with a mouth-piece and deep pockets could make Paulo's life very
uncomfortable.

Right after we bought the hotel, I found a bad review of our place on
AirNav. It was, of course (!), from before we bought the place, and was a
really nasty one, written by a guy who claimed that he was "told by a
line-guy to avoid the place."

Paulo of course removed it from his site when he heard we were the new
owners, but THAT'S the kind of third-hand slander that could really get him
in hot water, IMHO.

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house." Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.

I've wondered about that myself. Actually, I've always wondered how Paulo
has survived putting negative comments on his website, without getting sued.

Integrity, paucity and fear.

Businesses see that we try hard to do the right thing. That alone
gets us the respect that keeps another honorable business or person
with integrity from suing us.

Shortage of assets also helps. Even if they sued, there wouldn't be
much to collect. So what's the point?

And finally, fear of retribution. If they sued, it would be fair game
for us to post their suit on the web site. After all, it is public
record. The damage they would be doing to themselves would be far
greater than the damage inflicted by any comment.

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house."

Make that 9 years.

Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.

Way to go, Jay. Make sure FBOs know that.

Paulo Santos
AirNav, LLC http://www.airnav.com/