Kerry is a pilot?

Did we lose because of the military rotting from within? Was
Kerry an example of this?

Jay, you've truly reached a new low with this statement.

You seem to think I meant this question in a derogatory sort of way, when,
in fact, it was an honest, open-ended question.

Seeing a member of the armed forces actively protesting an on-going war (as
Kerry supposedly did while in uniform) seems to fit the definition of a
military "rotting from within." I was too young to fully appreciate the
Viet Nam debacle -- I was 15 when South Viet Nam fell -- but this action by
a decorated war "hero" would certainly indicate to me that morale had become
a significant problem for the U.S. military.

What else would you call it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" writes:


I could suggest you read, say, "A Rumor of War"...but I won't. You
prefer to remain in a kinda Disneyland world, all fantasy and no
reality.

What about members of the National Guard who were awol during the
early seventies? What was their contribution to the war effort?

Personally, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the guy with three
purple hearts.



Not saying I disagree with you regarding Kerry's patriotism, but the thought
comes to mind that perhaps we might have actually WON that war if we didn't
have so many "Indians" (like Kerry) thinking they were "Chiefs"...

"Jay Honeck" writes:

Did we lose because of the military rotting from within? Was
Kerry an example of this?

Jay, you've truly reached a new low with this statement.

You seem to think I meant this question in a derogatory sort of way, when,
in fact, it was an honest, open-ended question.

If that's the case, then I apologize.

I was 18 in 1973 so while I got a draft card and draft number they
were only calling the first 20-30 numbers when it was my turn. I
avoided service and didn't volunteer. I am not the type that does
well under authority ;-).

I knew of guys who went over there and came back messed up...a good
buddy of mine would tell me of how he and his platoon would tramp
around the jungle, buddies by his side stepping on the occasional land
mine and getting a foot blown off...he got a purple heart but nothing
that bad. He died at age 51 of liver cancer--I think probably Agent
Orange. Another guy in the special forces turned into a killing
machine, started liking killing gooks, and they had to deny him a 4th
tour. He's still violent 35 years later. I went to school with lots
of Vietnam vets. I never knew anybody who thought Vietnam was good.

If the military was rotting it was from BS, gung-ho officers who
wanted everything by the book and took stupid risks with their
men to further their careers. It was from candy-ass politicians who
got their own sons out of danger and would neither support an all-out
effort against N. Vietnam to win, nor would admit their limited,
micro-managed war couldn't win until 50,000 good Americans died.

Hurray for Kerry for keeping his eyes and mind open while in-country,
learning, and having the guts to speak what he thought was the truth,
in or out of uniform. The last thing this country needs is more
mindless sheep for our keepers to lead to perdition.

On 29 Jan 2004 18:52:39 -0800 Bob Fry wrote:

"Jay Honeck" writes:

Did we lose because of the military rotting from within? Was
Kerry an example of this?

Jay, you've truly reached a new low with this statement.

You seem to think I meant this question in a derogatory sort of way, when,
in fact, it was an honest, open-ended question.

If that's the case, then I apologize.

I was 18 in 1973 so while I got a draft card and draft number they
were only calling the first 20-30 numbers when it was my turn. I
avoided service and didn't volunteer. I am not the type that does
well under authority ;-).

I knew of guys who went over there and came back messed up...a good
buddy of mine would tell me of how he and his platoon would tramp
around the jungle, buddies by his side stepping on the occasional land
mine and getting a foot blown off...he got a purple heart but nothing
that bad. He died at age 51 of liver cancer--I think probably Agent
Orange. Another guy in the special forces turned into a killing
machine, started liking killing gooks, and they had to deny him a 4th
tour. He's still violent 35 years later. I went to school with lots
of Vietnam vets. I never knew anybody who thought Vietnam was good.

If the military was rotting it was from BS, gung-ho officers who
wanted everything by the book and took stupid risks with their
men to further their careers. It was from candy-ass politicians who
got their own sons out of danger and would neither support an all-out
effort against N. Vietnam to win, nor would admit their limited,
micro-managed war couldn't win until 50,000 good Americans died.

Hurray for Kerry for keeping his eyes and mind open while in-country,
learning, and having the guts to speak what he thought was the truth,
in or out of uniform. The last thing this country needs is more
mindless sheep for our keepers to lead to perdition.


I'm applausing this post! People with guts to speak their mind are what
this country is all about. And those members of government that want to
try to initimidate anyone opposing them are unpatriotic.


R. Hubbell

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:11:34 -0600 "Jim Fisher" wrote:

"R.Hubbell" wrote in message

Did you avoid fulfilling your swarn duties to your country?

No, I never had any "swarn" dities to my country . . . Except for paying
taxes, I reckon. I've never avoided them but I damn sure don't like 'em.
Does that count?

No not really. If we didn't pay taxes then the country would not look so
good or be very pleasant place to live.


So you think avoiding your swarn duties for your country is just a stupid
thing he did and it should be overlooked because he was young?

Yeah, that pretty much states it. He kinda made up for it by serving as
Commander in Chief . . . In my book, anyway.


Must be an interesting book. In my book he doesn't deserve the title.
It's a spit in the face of americans who fought for their country and
for americans that died for their country.



Are you the same person you were when you were in your teens-twenties? I
damn sure am not. Besides, it not like he took of to Canada.

Sons of people with lots less money suffer much worse fate than being
thought of as young and stupid when they fail to fulfill their swarn
duties to their country.

It's not nice to swarn, by the way.

It's a requirement of service.



R. Hubbell


--
Jim Fisher

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:26:51 -0800 "Tarver Engineering" wrote:


"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:32:15 -0800 "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Pilot Bob" wrote in message
news:khYQb.117895$sv6.636439@attbi_s52...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
news Not everyone. Not my a long shot. While he did seem to shirk
some
responsibilities, the record is not quite clear on exactly what
happened.
However, he *was* a youngun. I might have done a stupid thing or
twenty in
my younger years, too.

It is impossible to be AWOL from the National Guard, as drill
attendance was
optional.

Call it whatever you want. The fact is that, using his father's
connections,
he got placed in the National Guard to avoid the Vietnam draft and
even then
did not have the balls to meet his commitment.

There were open slots in the ANG in Texas, for anyone elidgeable. When
GW's

Eligible in that case meant you better be an quarterback or the son of a
rich man. Not just anyone got those slots. Everyone knew that then.
It's not been forgotten by a lot of people who had loved ones that died
serving their country. I won't forget either.

Anyone that wanted to join the Texas ANG could, excluding felons and the
children of Kluxers. In fact, most of the draft dodgers of the day could
have joined the Guard just by relocating to a State with open slots.

F-102 unit changed over to a new airplane, there was no way they were
going
to pay to retrain a short timer. GW's job would have been to sit at a
desk
doing nothing.

Well at least you acknowledge that he decided he wasn't going to serve his
country
because he got a boring desk job. Any way you slice it he did not fulfill
his
responsibilities to his country. That's not someone I respect.

Sure he did, but Dean dodged the draft.




And look where it got him.


R. Hubbell

In article ,
"R.Hubbell" wrote:

I'm applausing this post! People with guts to speak their mind are what
this country is all about. And those members of government that want to
try to initimidate anyone opposing them are unpatriotic.

applauding only posts you agree with is hardly something to be praised.

--
Bob Noel

In article NufSb.181637$xy6.871605@attbi_s02, "Jay Honeck"
writes:


Seeing a member of the armed forces actively protesting an on-going war (as
Kerry supposedly did while in uniform) seems to fit the definition of a
military "rotting from within."

Kerry's military service was honorable, it is the rest of his life that is
embarrassing.

Ann Coulter, Our Lady of the Poison Pen, sums him up nicely

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/a...20040129.shtml

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article NufSb.181637$xy6.871605@attbi_s02, "Jay Honeck"
writes:


Seeing a member of the armed forces actively protesting an on-going war
(as
Kerry supposedly did while in uniform) seems to fit the definition of a
military "rotting from within."

Kerry's military service was honorable, it is the rest of his life that is
embarrassing.

Ann Coulter, Our Lady of the Poison Pen, sums him up nicely

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/a...20040129.shtml


Her summary point:
Kerry clearly has no experience dealing with problems of typical Americans
since he is a cad and a gigolo living in the lap of other men's money

If we're going to talk about the candidates' pampered pasts, and their
understanding of typical Americans, can we talk about the coke-head frat-boy
drunk who couldn't even make money in the oil business despite having a
bucketful of bin Laden money? Or is that still off limits?

-- David Brooks

In article , "David Brooks"
writes:


Kerry's military service was honorable, it is the rest of his life that is
embarrassing.

Ann Coulter, Our Lady of the Poison Pen, sums him up nicely

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/a...20040129.shtml


Her summary point:
Kerry clearly has no experience dealing with problems of typical Americans
since he is a cad and a gigolo living in the lap of other men's money


Well, let's not leave out the financial deception he is using to evade the very
same Campaign Finance laws he advocated.

He is supposedly paying for his own campaign by mortgaging personal property,
thus not being limited by the caps on contributions. His 6 million dollar loan
would require payments of over $360K per year, but his income is only about
$142K. So the truth is that his wife is giving him an allowance to run for
president.

Just a gigolo
everywhere I go
people know the part
I'm playing

Paid for every dance
selling each romance
every night some heart
betraying

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG