AIRNAV not publishing fuel prices...

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.
Accurate information will disappear. I think he should sell ads.
That's it. Or perhaps charge a subscription, though I question if all
us pilots would fork over anything.

I for one do not change my routes to obtain cheap gas. I stop where
convenient. At lunch I want a resturant on the field, if not I want to
borrow a courtesy car and go to a cafe. For evening stop I want a
hotel that will pick me up and drop me off. I don't want to navigate a
rental car to/from the hotel or pay the rental car fee. I only rent a
car when I need to do business or sightseeing nearby. I do shop gas
around my nearby airport, I know where the cheap gas is near here. The
service is of limited value to me. But I do know that others differ
and plan their flights based on it.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:IQeSb.51817$U%5.286038@attbi_s03...
One other issue I have with Airnav's new direction is what will
Paulo do about a crappy business that offers poor service or rips off
customers? If they pay their advertising fee, do they get negative
comments removed from their listing? If not, why would they pay?

I've wondered about that myself. Actually, I've always wondered how Paulo
has survived putting negative comments on his website, without getting sued.

There are some pretty graphic and acidic posts about some businesses.
Someone with a mouth-piece and deep pockets could make Paulo's life very
uncomfortable.

Right after we bought the hotel, I found a bad review of our place on
AirNav. It was, of course (!), from before we bought the place, and was a
really nasty one, written by a guy who claimed that he was "told by a
line-guy to avoid the place."

Paulo of course removed it from his site when he heard we were the new
owners, but THAT'S the kind of third-hand slander that could really get him
in hot water, IMHO.

I feel for Paulo. He's operated this website full-time for a couple of
years, basically "on the house." Now that he's trying to actually make a
buck, everyone is down his throat. I say if an FBO is too damned cheap to
pay for their listing, that alone says enough to me that I will avoid the
place.

Doug wrote:

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring in
any business. Buddy of mine owns a self serve 12,000 gallon tank at an
airport near here. He sell 100LL for $2.19 a gallon. The guy across
the ramp, who a lot of people don't like, is the FBO and has long sold
fuel. He is on very shaky financial ground and is now forced to sell
fuel at the same price. Problem is he only buys 1000 gallons at a time
and can't get as good a price from the dealer. Here at the main airport
in Billings 100LL goes for about $2.90. Most traffic will stop here at
the main airport, even though 11 miles away you can save 70 cents a gallon.

Newps wrote in
news:4APSb.191598$I06.2115961@attbi_s01:

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring
in any business.

I think there are more reasons. [And unfortunately, I don't know a good
solution to the problem.] I frequently find myself at a lot of small
rural airports around the southwest. Most of these are unattended. A
lot that *claim* to be attended simply have a guy who lives in a trailer
somewhere on the property and mows the grass and keeps the barb wire
fences mended in return for a sub-standard place to live.

Fuel is from a self-serve pump, billed as the owning cities utility
district. There is usually a pay phone and a public toilet/building (or
at least a designated tree).

The problem here is NOT the price of an Airnav listing, but rather that
the airport is not run as a profit center. Just who is going to agree
to run the listing? The guy mowing the field? He doesn't have the
authority to spend the $10 per year, nor does he care. He gets nothing
from the fuel flow. The city utility district? They just handle the
billing - it's a data processing center. You could spend $50 in long
distance calls (not to mention your time) just trying to find anyone to
give you a definitive yes or no about subscribing to Airnav for $10 per
year.

[And yes, this situation has other fallout - no one promotes aviation,
no one promotes the airport or flying, and the airport is always viewed
as (and is) a drain on the public coffers.]

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

James M. Knox wrote:

Newps wrote in
news:4APSb.191598$I06.2115961@attbi_s01:


Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring
in any business.


I think there are more reasons. [And unfortunately, I don't know a good
solution to the problem.] I frequently find myself at a lot of small
rural airports around the southwest. Most of these are unattended. A
lot that *claim* to be attended simply have a guy who lives in a trailer
somewhere on the property and mows the grass and keeps the barb wire
fences mended in return for a sub-standard place to live.

Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.

Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.


Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:34:19 GMT, Newps wrote:


The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

One of the things I use AIRNAV for is to find all airports along my
route of flight that have an ILS and 24 hour fuel availability. There
is no other site that I am aware of that will give me that information
with a single request.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:L3WSb.154496$nt4.711997@attbi_s51...


Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.


Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

So go with AOPA. I'll stick with AirNav since I find AOPA to be to pilots
what AARP is to geezers. :~)

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Those with high prices often provide a higher level of service. Not
everyone always wants the cheap price. Believe me, I like cheap fuel.
But I also do a lot of meetings at FBOs. An FBO with a conference
room, meeting facilities, a speakerphone, internet connection, and a
courtesy car provides me a valuable office space for a day -- for
free. Well, not for tree, but for the extra cost of the fuel. I
don't mind paying extra for the better services, and if the way to
charge is through the fuel price, that is fine with me.

If I am just passing through on a refueling stop, with no wife or
customers, I don't mind the "FBO in a double-wide" that offers cheaper
fuel.

Different missions, different needs.

The FBOs with higher prices are the ones that should want to advetise
the most -- they want to show the services and amenities they offer,
in a way to justify the higher prices they charge.

Paulo Santos
AirNav, LLC http://www.airnav.com/

"Paulo Santos" wrote in message
om...
Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Those with high prices often provide a higher level of service. Not
everyone always wants the cheap price. Believe me, I like cheap fuel.
But I also do a lot of meetings at FBOs. An FBO with a conference
room, meeting facilities, a speakerphone, internet connection, and a
courtesy car provides me a valuable office space for a day -- for
free. Well, not for tree, but for the extra cost of the fuel. I
don't mind paying extra for the better services, and if the way to
charge is through the fuel price, that is fine with me.

If I am just passing through on a refueling stop, with no wife or
customers, I don't mind the "FBO in a double-wide" that offers cheaper
fuel.

Different missions, different needs.

The FBOs with higher prices are the ones that should want to advetise
the most -- they want to show the services and amenities they offer,
in a way to justify the higher prices they charge.

Paulo Santos
AirNav, LLC http://www.airnav.com/

Yet this one inverts all the rationale.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCOS