Great shot of the Thunderbird F-16 Ejection

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

OK. Here's an address I set up. Try it.

In mean time, a story about the "Captive Air" trainer at Willie.

The F-80A/B both had the little engine (3850-4000 lb thrust) and fuel
control was manual.

The fuel valve was like a water valve (90 degrees from off to full
open) and connected directly to the throttle. The fuel boost pump was
the I-16 (prior use as main fuel pump in Bell P-59) that pulled
something like 15-20 amps when running.

Starting engine you had to manually move throttle between idle and
idle cut off to keep engine running (fire burning) and temperature
with in limits.

With the manual fuel control, it took 21 seconds to go from idle to
full throttle. If you moved faster, you overtemped the engine or blew
the fire out.

With this little back ground, back to the "Captive Air". This was a
F-80 mounted on steel posts in a flat attitude (same as you sat on the
ground on the gear.)

The mounting posts were long enough that the wheels cleared the ground
so the gear could be retracted.

Student studied procedures and after deemed ready was put in the
"Captive Air" for a start and simulated flight. Instructor stood on
wing to talk the student through start, simulated take off, gear
retract, throttle acceleration, gear down, simulated land and
simulated go around, etc.

After we used up (crashed) all the F-80A/B's we went to all T-33's and
they tore the "Captive Air" down (

The only significant difference between the 'A' and 'B' was the 'B'
had a ejection seat. When I first got to Willie they had the ejection
seats deactivated as they were scared students couldn't handle them.
Shortly later the word came down from on high. If the bird has a
ejection seat, activate it. All the T-33's had ejection seats so
students were exposed to them prior to going on to the F-84 or F-86
and Korea.

More "War Stories" later G

Big John

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
````````````````````


On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 04:15:28 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

John; I haven't gotten anything from you except what I've seen here. I've
been hitting the reply to sender button here and I guess that is going to
the hotmail.com address.

Don't have too much time in the T-Bird; a few hours up in Canada. Some in
the F86 which was a blast to fly; then into T38's and finally the F14 for
some test work. Did an evaluation of the Snowbirds Tutors that was fun; A
ton of time in prop fighters; all as a civilian BTW! :-)
I remember the T-Bird simulator though. I believe it was called the C11B;
you probably remember it ; the zero reader eight ball and all that! Much
better than the old Link ANT18 yellow and blue monster we learned on.
The T38 would seem like greased lightning to someone after flying the T33
:-) Just the start procedure would drive a T Bird driver nuts looking for
something to do during spool up!!! It's mostly automatic.
You push the start buttons and watch the clocks. Easy!!
And you don't have those big 230 gal. centerlines hanging out there either
which is nice!! Then there's the ultimate. You can take a 38 out to about .9
and max deflect the ailerons. This will bounce the helmet of the back seat
guy right off the canopy! :-)
Lord, I miss the fun times!! :-)
Dudley

Dudley

We can stay here vs e-mail but may get 'OT'?

"Boots" is a classmate of mine.

About 650 hours in the P/F-51D/K. My bird (Kathie Kay) was a 'K' (Aero
Products Prop). 8 FG, 35 Sq. Itazukie, Ashyia, Miho.

Participated in some of the service testing on T-28A at Edwards.

F-94C (super sonic bird same as F-86). Without tip tanks would 'whup'
'86. Best bird I ever flew. You couldn't tear it up no matter what you
did except fly into the ground.

We had one bird at Hamilton that dropped the tips when you pulled the
gear up ( We flew the bird clean while Lockheed tried to figure out
problem. 30 minute flight and then a 'practice' forced landing
approach to field )

Year with Navy tail hook Sq in F2H3 (twin engine T- bird performance).

WADF Project Officer on F-89J and F-101B (Atomic Interceptors).

Was a great life in a wondrous age from Jennies (first bird I can
remember) to the 101B last supersonic bird I flew.

Not just sure where you were in the test flying program? Virg Givins
was also a classmate of mine.

Worked with the Canuks in Air Defense (ADC/NORAD).

Glad when Super Bowl over here in Houston and can get back to normal
(

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:06:19 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

----clip----
..

Don't have too much time in the T-Bird; a few hours up in Canada. Some in
the F86 which was a blast to fly; then into T38's and finally the F14 for
some test work. Did an evaluation of the Snowbirds Tutors that was fun; A
ton of time in prop fighters; all as a civilian BTW! :-)

I remember the T-Bird simulator though. I believe it was called the C11B;
you probably remember it the zero reader eight ball and all that! Much
better than the old Link ANT18 yellow and blue monster we learned on.

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````
The Zero Reader was one of the best instruments I flew (in F-94C) Why
they didn't continue using it I don't know?
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````````````

The T38 would seem like greased lightning to someone after flying the T33
:-) Just the start procedure would drive a T Bird driver nuts looking for
something to do during spool up!!! It's mostly automatic.
You push the start buttons and watch the clocks. Easy!!
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````
The F-94C had an auto start. You could put the throttle in A/B and hit
start switches and engine would start, wind up to 100% and go into
burner without any further action on your part.

Engine was a J-48 centrifugal. Only other centrifugal than the J-33 in
T-33.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````````````````

And you don't have those big 230 gal. centerlines hanging out there either
which is nice!! Then there's the ultimate. You can take a 38 out to about .9
and max deflect the ailerons. This will bounce the helmet of the back seat
guy right off the canopy! :-)

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `
One of my play maneuvers in T- bird was to pick up a little speed and
then pull the nose up to about 45 degrees and lay stick full over.
Bird would roll up and over top and I would let continue to about a 45
degree dive and 'whap' stop. After stopping roll, the passenger would
end up with his head cocked over against the canopy due to inner ear.
I'd tell him to straighten head up and he would shake his head yes but
not straighten up. Would take 4-5 minutes before he could sit straight
again in cockpit G
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````````````````````
Lord, I miss the fun times!! :-)
Dudley
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````````````
Know what you mean. Never again will anyone have the opportunity to do
things like happened in the past century.

BJ

Group; sorry for the OT stuff. Trying to sort it out now.

John; we must be having trouble with private email for some reason. I've
sent several to you back channel, both using the hotmail and the new address
you listed in a prior post here. I've received nothing from you in return.
The mails however didn't bounce back to me. Have no idea what it could be.
All other email is coming through just fine. You're the only one. Have you
received anything from me at all? Have you tried to email me at all?
D
"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

We can stay here vs e-mail but may get 'OT'?

"Boots" is a classmate of mine.

About 650 hours in the P/F-51D/K. My bird (Kathie Kay) was a 'K' (Aero
Products Prop). 8 FG, 35 Sq. Itazukie, Ashyia, Miho.

Participated in some of the service testing on T-28A at Edwards.

F-94C (super sonic bird same as F-86). Without tip tanks would 'whup'
'86. Best bird I ever flew. You couldn't tear it up no matter what you
did except fly into the ground.

We had one bird at Hamilton that dropped the tips when you pulled the
gear up ( We flew the bird clean while Lockheed tried to figure out
problem. 30 minute flight and then a 'practice' forced landing
approach to field )

Year with Navy tail hook Sq in F2H3 (twin engine T- bird performance).

WADF Project Officer on F-89J and F-101B (Atomic Interceptors).

Was a great life in a wondrous age from Jennies (first bird I can
remember) to the 101B last supersonic bird I flew.

Not just sure where you were in the test flying program? Virg Givins
was also a classmate of mine.

Worked with the Canuks in Air Defense (ADC/NORAD).

Glad when Super Bowl over here in Houston and can get back to normal
(

Big John

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
`````````````````````````

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:06:19 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

----clip----
.

Don't have too much time in the T-Bird; a few hours up in Canada. Some in
the F86 which was a blast to fly; then into T38's and finally the F14 for
some test work. Did an evaluation of the Snowbirds Tutors that was fun; A
ton of time in prop fighters; all as a civilian BTW! :-)

I remember the T-Bird simulator though. I believe it was called the C11B;
you probably remember it the zero reader eight ball and all that! Much
better than the old Link ANT18 yellow and blue monster we learned on.


`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
``````````
The Zero Reader was one of the best instruments I flew (in F-94C) Why
they didn't continue using it I don't know?

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
````````````

The T38 would seem like greased lightning to someone after flying the T33
:-) Just the start procedure would drive a T Bird driver nuts looking for
something to do during spool up!!! It's mostly automatic.
You push the start buttons and watch the clocks. Easy!!

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
``````````````
The F-94C had an auto start. You could put the throttle in A/B and hit
start switches and engine would start, wind up to 100% and go into
burner without any further action on your part.

Engine was a J-48 centrifugal. Only other centrifugal than the J-33 in
T-33.

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
````````````````

And you don't have those big 230 gal. centerlines hanging out there
either
which is nice!! Then there's the ultimate. You can take a 38 out to about
..9
and max deflect the ailerons. This will bounce the helmet of the back
seat
guy right off the canopy! :-)


`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
`````````````````````````
One of my play maneuvers in T- bird was to pick up a little speed and
then pull the nose up to about 45 degrees and lay stick full over.
Bird would roll up and over top and I would let continue to about a 45
degree dive and 'whap' stop. After stopping roll, the passenger would
end up with his head cocked over against the canopy due to inner ear.
I'd tell him to straighten head up and he would shake his head yes but
not straighten up. Would take 4-5 minutes before he could sit straight
again in cockpit G

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
`````````````````````
Lord, I miss the fun times!! :-)
Dudley

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````
````````````
Know what you mean. Never again will anyone have the opportunity to do
things like happened in the past century.

BJ

Dudley Henriques,



OT stuff?? and down loading music and Kerry stuff are? lol

Question for you older military pilots... Back in 1975 my high school,
guidance counselor said I could not fly (pilot) in the military because I
wore glasses, but I sure see now there were quit a few who did. What would
be a rough % of pilots who wore glasses?



Pat Thronson



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

Group; sorry for the OT stuff. Trying to sort it out now.

John; we must be having trouble with private email for some reason. I've
sent several to you back channel, both using the hotmail and the new
address
you listed in a prior post here. I've received nothing from you in return.
The mails however didn't bounce back to me. Have no idea what it could be.
All other email is coming through just fine. You're the only one. Have you
received anything from me at all? Have you tried to email me at all?
D


On topic aviation piloting snipage

"Pat Thronson" wrote in message
. net...
Dudley Henriques,



OT stuff?? and down loading music and Kerry stuff are? lol

Question for you older military pilots... Back in 1975 my high school,
guidance counselor said I could not fly (pilot) in the military because I
wore glasses, but I sure see now there were quit a few who did. What would
be a rough % of pilots who wore glasses?



Pat Thronson

The actual percentage for this kind of stat might or might not be in the
database, I'm not sure. Perhaps some of the statistics guys out here will
have this information.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Pat

Many pilots wear glases. More as they get older.

Basic rule was that you needed 20/20 to get in pilot training. After
you graduated and if your eyes then started going down like all do but
could be corrected to 20/20 with glasses you could continue to fly.
After all they had spent a fortune to train you.

Think they felt if you started with bad eys and they then went down
you wouldn't be able to get corrective lens to see???

When I started I could see 20/20 to 20/15 depending on the day and
time of day tested. I now wear glasses that only correct to 20/20 -
20/30 (.

Believe these are the genral rules and why.


Big John

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 03:21:28 GMT, "Pat Thronson"
wrote:

Dudley Henriques,



OT stuff?? and down loading music and Kerry stuff are? lol

Question for you older military pilots... Back in 1975 my high school,
guidance counselor said I could not fly (pilot) in the military because I
wore glasses, but I sure see now there were quit a few who did. What would
be a rough % of pilots who wore glasses?



Pat Thronson



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

Group; sorry for the OT stuff. Trying to sort it out now.

John; we must be having trouble with private email for some reason. I've
sent several to you back channel, both using the hotmail and the new
address
you listed in a prior post here. I've received nothing from you in return.
The mails however didn't bounce back to me. Have no idea what it could be.
All other email is coming through just fine. You're the only one. Have you
received anything from me at all? Have you tried to email me at all?
D


On topic aviation piloting snipage

Basic rule was that you needed 20/20 to get in pilot training.

And what a crap rule that is. It ended my chances for a military career,
and it's now ending my 13 year old son's chances -- despite the fact that he
is corrected to better than 20/20. (As was I.)

When I tried to enlist (late 70s) they told me they just used the vision
rule as a way to prune the list down, since there were 10 applicants for
every pilot position. Nowadays, with modern optics and/or Lasik surgery, it
is possible to correct nearly anyone to 20/20 or better.

Oh well. With reenlistment supposedly plummeting, maybe they'll have to
allow lasik before my kid comes of age, just to keep enough pilots?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Big John" wrote in message
...
Pat

Many pilots wear glases. More as they get older.


Think they felt if you started with bad eys and they then went down
you wouldn't be able to get corrective lens to see???

When I started I could see 20/20 to 20/15 depending on the day and
time of day tested. I now wear glasses that only correct to 20/20 -
20/30 (.

Believe these are the genral rules and why.


Big John

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 03:21:28 GMT, "Pat Thronson"
wrote:

Dudley Henriques,



OT stuff?? and down loading music and Kerry stuff are? lol

Question for you older military pilots... Back in 1975 my high school,
guidance counselor said I could not fly (pilot) in the military because I
wore glasses, but I sure see now there were quit a few who did. What
would
be a rough % of pilots who wore glasses?



Pat Thronson



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

Group; sorry for the OT stuff. Trying to sort it out now.

John; we must be having trouble with private email for some reason.
I've
sent several to you back channel, both using the hotmail and the new
address
you listed in a prior post here. I've received nothing from you in
return.
The mails however didn't bounce back to me. Have no idea what it could
be.
All other email is coming through just fine. You're the only one. Have
you
received anything from me at all? Have you tried to email me at all?
D


On topic aviation piloting snipage

Jay Honeck wrote:

Oh well. With reenlistment supposedly plummeting, maybe they'll have to
allow lasik before my kid comes of age, just to keep enough pilots?

Pilots are not enlisted men. As officers, the rules for dropping out of the
service are somewhat different.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

Jay

Lots of rules. Know of pro athletes who couldn't pass military
physical standards

Big John

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:07:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Basic rule was that you needed 20/20 to get in pilot training.

And what a crap rule that is. It ended my chances for a military career,
and it's now ending my 13 year old son's chances -- despite the fact that he
is corrected to better than 20/20. (As was I.)

When I tried to enlist (late 70s) they told me they just used the vision
rule as a way to prune the list down, since there were 10 applicants for
every pilot position. Nowadays, with modern optics and/or Lasik surgery, it
is possible to correct nearly anyone to 20/20 or better.

Oh well. With reenlistment supposedly plummeting, maybe they'll have to
allow lasik before my kid comes of age, just to keep enough pilots?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsK7Tb.203524$na.334722@attbi_s04...
Basic rule was that you needed 20/20 to get in pilot training.

And what a crap rule that is. It ended my chances for a military career,
and it's now ending my 13 year old son's chances -- despite the fact that
he
is corrected to better than 20/20. (As was I.)

When I tried to enlist (late 70s) they told me they just used the vision
rule as a way to prune the list down, since there were 10 applicants for
every pilot position. Nowadays, with modern optics and/or Lasik surgery,
it
is possible to correct nearly anyone to 20/20 or better.

Oh well. With reenlistment supposedly plummeting, maybe they'll have to
allow lasik before my kid comes of age, just to keep enough pilots?

In the late 60's the Army lowered the vision requirements for helicopter
pilots to something like 20/80 uncorrected if correctable to 20/20. They
also (IIRC) lowered the education requirements to a high school graduate. I
believe this was due to the high attrition rates they were experiencing.

I got there six months too late, with 20/60, the HS diploma, and all the
test scores. :~(