Logging time as safety pilot?

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..

but to act as safety pilot for someone under the hood.. you have to hold at
least a private pilot certificate and be qualified to fly the aircraft

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

BT

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...
I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..


If you are really a safety pilot (he's under the hood and you are responsible
for aluminum and granite), then if you are ALSO acting as PIC you can log PIC
time. The other pilot can also log PIC time as "sole manipulator" even though
he's not acting as PIC.

However, if the safety pilot is NOT ACTING as PIC (and not the final authority
as to the operation of the aircraft), then he cannot log PIC. (If he is the
sole manipulator of the controls too, he's not the safety pilot, he's the real
pilot). However, he can log SIC time as a required crewmember.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Except for about 12 people in the world, all of them here on this board,
everybody would just log the time as PIC.



CFLav8r wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

Assuming an aircraft that normally only requires a crew of ONE..

Safety pilot time is SIC (except as noted).. during that period of time
the friend is under the hood, the safety pilot is a "required crewmember".

However, during this period of time, if BOTH of you agree that you (the
safety pilot) ARE the PIC, then you can log it as PIC during the period
of time the friend is under the hood. The hood friend can also log it as
PIC as sole manipulator. Keep in mind.. if the airplane goes somewhere
it shouldnt, or something happens the PIC is likely to be held
accountable.. so a little bit of trust is in order.

The question is answered somewhat in the FAA FAQ's section regarding
Part 61 on their website (at least it was at one time).

Dave

BTIZ wrote:
you can only log the time as acting PIC when either your hands are on the
controls, or you are acting as safety pilot while he is under the hood.. any
other time is not loggable..

but to act as safety pilot for someone under the hood.. you have to hold at
least a private pilot certificate and be qualified to fly the aircraft

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

BT

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:39:42 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

And for acting as safety pilot, those who so state would be wrong.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:31:21 GMT, "CFLav8r"
wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

If you acted as safety pilot, and were legally qualified to do so (i.e.
current medical and rated in category & class), then you may log SIC time.

In order to log PIC time, as others are suggesting, you would need to be
qualified to act as PIC in the a/c (i.e. all endorsements, currency
requirements, etc.) and, according to FAA legal counsel, also have had an
agreement with the pilot flying, prior to the flight, that you would be
legally responsible for the flight of the aircraft.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

If you acted as safety pilot, and were legally qualified to do so (i.e.
current medical and rated in category & class), then you may log SIC time.

In order to log PIC time, as others are suggesting, you would need to be
qualified to act as PIC in the a/c (i.e. all endorsements, currency
requirements, etc.) and, according to FAA legal counsel, also have had an
agreement with the pilot flying, prior to the flight, that you would be
legally responsible for the flight of the aircraft.

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Well to clarify, I do have all the requirements met.
I am a private pilot, checked out in the C172SP that we flew and I am
current.
Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to
see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from SFB and
crossed
ahead of our path.).
It is the see and avoid that I believe makes me responsible for the over all
flight path.
Since this was under-the-hood flying and not actual IMC it was also my
responsibility
to decide if the aircraft was under the proper control and to assume control
should I
feel it to be necessary.

David (KORL)

Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from
SFB and
crossed ahead of our path.).
It is the see and avoid that I believe makes me responsible for the over all
flight path.


Nope. Your agreement was you were the eyes outside the aircraft. This does
not make you the "final authority as to the operation of the aircraft". You
are a sensor, not a processor. The other pilot is still responsible for
responding to your input in an appropriate manner. Even if you are compelled
to grab the yoke to prevent an inadvertant customization of the aircraft (which
would fall under the responsiblity as safety pilot), you are still not PIC.

Not by the agreement you describe above.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...


Well to clarify, I do have all the requirements met.
I am a private pilot, checked out in the C172SP that we flew and I am
current.
Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to
see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from SFB and
crossed
ahead of our path.).


Your medical is current too, right?

The question is: If there were an incident or an accident (e.g., bust a TFR,
clip a Class B shelf, fly too low in a congested area with no intention of
landing, etc. etc.) am I going to accept the consequences of PIC
responsibility because I had final authority to prevent these issues? I'm
guessing that since the pilot flying didn't say, "make sure we're above
3000' when we overfly Disney", or something similar, there was no pre-flight
understanding that you were acting PIC. It sounds more like you spotted
traffic and the pilot flying was responsible for maneuvering the aircraft to
avoid it, which is not PIC.

That said, how you log it is up to you, but if you ever need to explain that
log entry, you need an answer/response that includes a concurring statement
from the pilot flying under the hood and your concurrence that you
understood the legal consequences if the FAR was violated during that time.

Just a thought, but in the grand scheme of things total time is important
too.