AIRNAV not publishing fuel prices...

"Paulo Santos" wrote in message
om...

Yes, some FBOs have tried to censor their comments, but we have always
and will always decline. If they insist, we offer to refund their
money. At that point most just accept reality and take it as it is.
Occasionally, they want to play tough. We have lost a large 20+ FBO
chain account as a result of that firm policy, and we will stand by it
no matter what. Actually, when I say that we have lost the account,
that is a temporary thing. I am confident that they will turn around
and see how futile their resistance is. By not signing up they
forfeit the opportunity to present themselves, and are left with the
comments only. They are left with just the very thing they were
trying to avoid.

One would think that they would expend that energy to keep customers happy
(i.e., "We regret the experience that Joe Blow had with our company...",
rather than trying to rationalize like children.

I, for example, used AirNav from my phone last night. Is the data
worth $100/year to me? Sure. Is it worth $100/year if I have to
use JavaScript and cookies and whatever other garbage to get to it
(thus rendering it unusable on my phone and most of my other
browers) and can no longer post usable links to it? No way.

What Javascript and cookies and whatever? On AirNav?

"Paulo Santos" wrote in message
om...
Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Those with high prices often provide a higher level of service. Not
everyone always wants the cheap price. Believe me, I like cheap fuel.
But I also do a lot of meetings at FBOs. An FBO with a conference
room, meeting facilities, a speakerphone, internet connection, and a
courtesy car provides me a valuable office space for a day -- for
free. Well, not for tree, but for the extra cost of the fuel. I
don't mind paying extra for the better services, and if the way to
charge is through the fuel price, that is fine with me.

If I am just passing through on a refueling stop, with no wife or
customers, I don't mind the "FBO in a double-wide" that offers cheaper
fuel.

Different missions, different needs.

The FBOs with higher prices are the ones that should want to advetise
the most -- they want to show the services and amenities they offer,
in a way to justify the higher prices they charge.

Paulo Santos
AirNav, LLC http://www.airnav.com/

Yet this one inverts all the rationale.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCOS

(Paulo Santos) writes:

I, for example, used AirNav from my phone last night. Is the data
worth $100/year to me? Sure. Is it worth $100/year if I have to
use JavaScript and cookies and whatever other garbage to get to it
(thus rendering it unusable on my phone and most of my other
browers) and can no longer post usable links to it? No way.

What Javascript and cookies and whatever? On AirNav?

No, on similar services that switch to requiring authentication in
order to use. The quote above it was
- Great. Would you pay $39/year to continue to use the service?
I assume that you'd verify that users paid, not just go on the honor
system.

Aeroplanner is an example of a system that requires cookies to
authenticate for their service. AOPA is a decent counterexample.
(They permit standard authentication in addition to the cookie
stuff.)

Like I said, I appreciate AirNav the way it is. (But *you* know
that already.)

--kyler

"Paulo Santos" wrote in message om...
So what are we doing to the businesses that don't pay? We typically
take out all their information, except their name, phone number, fuel
prices, and user comments. (To those business that order services
from us, promise to pay, and then fail to pay their bills, well, those
we remove altogether -- but you wouldn't want to do business with
those guys anyway.).

You better check that out with your buddies who are running the show.
It appears to me that non-participating businesses seem to have been
deleted entirely. I used to use AIRNAV as sort of an aviation yellow
pages when I needed to look up the phone number of an aviation business.
Several of the ones that I use seem to have been dropped entirely.

Your service has hence become too unreliable to be useful for me.
I

(Paulo Santos) wrote in message . com...
snip
Since you know so many business owners, if you like AirNav and want it
to continue to provide a good service you are in a good position to
help. You can help by thanking the buiness owners that believed in
the model and "ponied up", and encourage the others to sign up. It is
not going to break their bank, no matter how small they are.


You can bet that I already have. Most of the ones I know are not
Internet savvy and have asked me what the story was behind the
solicitation from Airnav. I've encouraged all of them to sign up, but
to many of them, paying for a listing on the Internet is like paying
for a billboard on Mars. They just don't go there.

Keep up the good work and good luck with the new revenue model.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:

You can bet that I already have. Most of the ones I know are not
Internet savvy and have asked me what the story was behind the
solicitation from Airnav. I've encouraged all of them to sign up, but
to many of them, paying for a listing on the Internet is like paying
for a billboard on Mars. They just don't go there.

But can you imagine the publicity should one of the rovers snap a picture of
a billboard?

Excuse me...I've a business plan to write up...

- Andrew

"Ron Natalie" wrote in
:

You better check that out with your buddies who are running the show.
It appears to me that non-participating businesses seem to have been
deleted entirely.

Perhaps, but I see some that I use on Airnav, still there (at least fuel
prices, which is what Paulo promised). Most of these are fields that I
can't believe ANYONE paid ANYTHING to stay on the list. [Not, as I
mentioned before, because it isn't worthwhile, but because there is no one
"in charge" to pony up the money - and yes, they probably haven't heard of
the Internet either. G]

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

What I ask of you is to publish just fuel prices for the FBOs that are
not able to make such payments. This is not happening; I know at least
two airports with new fuel service that the prices are not been
published.

The absence of FBO prices is generally unrelated to the FBOs paying or
not. In the past, even before we charged, there could be FBOs that
were not listed, or FBOs with wrong prices, etc. Things change fast,
and it's hard to keep up with all the changes.

Now that we charge you assume that the absence of the FBOs is due to
their lack of payment. Not necessarily. It could be simply becaus we
don;t know they're there.

Please tell me what the missing FBOs are and we will take care of it.

Paulo Santos
AirNav, LLC http://www.airnav.com/

"Paulo Santos" wrote in message
om...
What I ask of you is to publish just fuel prices for the FBOs that are
not able to make such payments. This is not happening; I know at least
two airports with new fuel service that the prices are not been
published.

The absence of FBO prices is generally unrelated to the FBOs paying or
not. In the past, even before we charged, there could be FBOs that
were not listed, or FBOs with wrong prices, etc. Things change fast,
and it's hard to keep up with all the changes.

Now that we charge you assume that the absence of the FBOs is due to
their lack of payment. Not necessarily. It could be simply becaus we
don;t know they're there.

Please tell me what the missing FBOs are and we will take care of it.


In this example: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCOS , there's three FBO's.
One subscribes and two don't (IIUC). Yet two have fuel current prices and
one has not been updated in two years. Again, IIUC, the price updates are
submitted by users _or_ the FBO, correct?