A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Freelance CFIs and plane rentals??



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 24th 04, 05:06 AM
C J Campbell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
(Sam) wrote in message

. com...

As far as I know, there are no FBOs in the U.S. that have CFI's as
employees. We are almost always "1099" not "W-2". I think this helps
divorse the liability of having employees.


I am an employee of PAVCO as a CFI and get a W-2.

A lot of places that claim that their instructors are 'independent'
contractors are asking to get bitten by their state labor regulators. Some
states allow anyone who claims that they are a contractor to be treated as
one, but some others get downright nasty.

There is no liability protection in having contractors instead of employees.
It is a tax and labor issue. Employers have to pay employer taxes for their
employees and withhold income taxes and deposit them on a regular basis.
They have to pay their employees minimum wage. They have to pay their
employees for all work they do. Both states and the federal government take
a dim view of businesses that attempt to evade taxes and labor laws by
calling their employees 'independent' contractors.

If a CFI was really an independent contractor he could not be required to
perform any additional duties, could not be told how to do his job, could
not be required to use company planes, could not be forbidden to give flight
instruction on his own time or at other FBOs, etc. Some states require
anyone working as a contractor to have a license or otherwise register as a
business.

The first time a 'contractor' CFI gets hurt on the job and files a workman's
compensation claim (or even inadvertently admits to hospital personnel that
he was injured on the job) then the state is going to come looking for back
taxes, penalties, interest, and a real good reason why this CFI should not
be eligible for compensation at the employer's expense. A good argument can
be made that calling your instructors contractors actually increases your
liability exposure a great deal. Employees are easier to insure and much
easier to manage.


  #2  
Old February 24th 04, 05:31 PM
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
If a CFI was really an independent contractor he could not be required to
perform any additional duties, could not be told how to do his job, could
not be required to use company planes, could not be forbidden to give flight
instruction on his own time or at other FBOs, etc. Some states require
anyone working as a contractor to have a license or otherwise register as a
business.


I'm pretty sure that isn't true. I work in the teleco industry and
about 25% of us (engineers) are contractors. You would never know the
difference just walking around the cubes. The contractors are still
told how to do their job just like employees. They are still required
to use the same equipment. They do not have to be ind. businesses (we
operate in almost every state and over 30 countries). They are still
forbidden from working for anyone else during their contract. The
company has 6 lawyers dedicated to preventing the state from
considering these guys as employees (there are some strange things
they do to maintain the difference).


-Robert
  #4  
Old February 24th 04, 06:19 PM
Michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"C J Campbell" wrote
If a CFI was really an independent contractor he could not be required to
perform any additional duties, could not be told how to do his job, could
not be required to use company planes, could not be forbidden to give flight
instruction on his own time or at other FBOs, etc.


I am an independent contractor at an FBO. I don't get a W2 or 1099.
I meet all the above tests. The FBO does not pay me - I am
responsible for finding my own students, doing my own billing, etc.
The student pays the FBO for the aircraft, and pays me for instruction
in a completely separate transaction. I set my own rates. All
instructors there work on the same basis. There are operations that
do it right.

I estimate these comprise less than 5% of all FBO's.

The first time a 'contractor' CFI gets hurt on the job and files a workman's
compensation claim ...


It doesn't even require that. All it really takes is one disgruntled
fired flight instructor filing for unemployment. If the state labor
board decides he doesn't meet the definition of independent contractor
(and most don't), watch out. The argument that he knew what the deal
was up front doesn't fly - the reason labor law exists in the first
place is that the employer is understood to have much more power in
the situation than the employee.

Personally, I would love to see these laws enforced against FBO's. It
would lead to a much better business climate.

Michael
  #5  
Old February 24th 04, 06:35 PM
John Galban
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

A lot of places that claim that their instructors are 'independent'
contractors are asking to get bitten by their state labor regulators. Some
states allow anyone who claims that they are a contractor to be treated as
one, but some others get downright nasty.


State labor regulators? I'd be a lot more concerned about the IRS.
A few years ago they started cracking down on employers who claimed
their employees were independent contractors, in order to avoid
payroll taxes. Some FBOs that I know of treat their instructors as
true independent contractors, while others have gone the employee
route. It depends on how the FBO is run.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got burned - Don't go to Lansing Jet Center. Jon Kraus Piloting 57 December 14th 03 06:39 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.