Instrument rating??

I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

Tell your ATP friend of a friend to go jump in a lake, or have him join on
here and I'll tell him myself. One of the best things you can do for your
own safety and satisfaction is to get an instrument rating. You can fly
hard, medium, or light IMC depending on your own risk levels, equipment, and
conditions. People who are instrument rated can decide what they think
they're ready for just like a private pilot can.

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it.

This kind of BS just plain ****es me off. You do not become more likely to
kill yourself with an instrument rating and not flying 3 times a week. This
statement is a perfect example of why hours do not necessarily mean
competence in aviation.

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
ink.net...
I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

This is like arguing that you shouldn't wear a parachute, cause
if you do you'll take extreme chances and kill yourself.

My personal belief is that training and/or education (and travel) is never
truly wasted, even if you never use it again.

If you're the kind of guy who thinks the rating is a magic key to
IFR, and you don't need to be current to use it, you'll probably
kill yourself somehow else, even if you don't get the rating. Good
airmanship means good sense. If you have a reasonable quota of
airmanship/good-sense you'll know when to use it, and when not,
and if you don't you're in the wrong avocation anyway.

I just got mine, so I don't speak from a whole lot of experience.

But I would say a few things in response to that...

Most importantly, personal judgement is just that - personal. You need to
have good judgement, and one thing that my CFI hammered into me from very
early on in my IFR training was that just cause it's legal doesn't mean
it's smart or safe.

That said, I do agree that you have to keep flying in order to maintain
proficiency. Even a week-long lapse had a noticeable affect on my
performance at this stage of my IFR flying. But the more I fly IFR (even
in VMC) the less I lose between days. I expect that after I have been
flying IFR for a while, it will be to the point where I can go a week or
two between flights on not be too rusty. But I don't think I would walk
out today and start a flight into minimums - even if I had flown IFR
yesterday.

It's not much different than when I got my private a couple of years ago.
After I got my private, if I took more than a few days off, it showed. It
showed in my navigation, in my control, and in my landings. But after a
year or so, I was able to maintain control pretty intuitively, and land
comfortably without having to try too hard, even after a week or two
break.

The bottom line is that you have to know yourself - your own limitations.
Even if you REALLY WANT to fly somewhere, and it's legal, but beyond your
personal capability at the time, you really need to evaluate your
situation objectively and avoid "get-there-itis". Without a doubt, that
is the killer.

If your personality and ego won't let you do that, your friend may be
right. But if you're reasonable enough to remember to take a step back
and THINK, even in the face of strong desire, I'm guessing you'll be just
fine.

Of course, if you give up before you even try, what's the point!?!?!

Paul Folbrecht wrote in
ink.net:

I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly
dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm
not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

Simple. Your friend of a friend is an idiots' idiot.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
ink.net...
I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

You have a PPL. Would you now attempt to fly in conditions that you can't
handle, or attempt maneuvers that you or the plane are not qualified for?

Get the IR, respect the weather, and enjoy a marginal amount more freedom
than you do now. If you are silly enough to take off into freezing rain just
because you have an IR, it is not the IR that is killing you.

By the way, this guy must have had a terrible mechanic - nine engine
failures!

Michael




"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
ink.net...
I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

No need for me to "pile on", but advancing your aviation education is no waste
of time. I have always believed the Instrument Rating is the most important
rating you will ever get. You will be a better pilot and more skilled in
working in the system (VFR, too).

www.Rosspilot.com

Paul Folbrecht wrote:

Thoughts on this??

I heard the same from a retired 737 pilot. The way he put it was "If you aren't
going to use it all the time, don't get an instrument rating".


George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

I think the guy is feeding you alot of crap.
there are alot of benefits of instrument training and getting the instrument
rating.
one is lower insurance if you own your own plane the other is you can
legally fly when its below VFR minimums nor do you have to dodge around
clouds when you are going somewhere.

thinking your invincible is not something only instrument pilots do, VFR
pilots do it also. But just because you have an instrument rating does not
mean you can fly in anything. your skills and the plane your flying dictate
the weather you fly in.


Paul Folbrecht wrote:

I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??