We Are All Spaniards

"Teacherjh" wrote:
Realistially? None.
[snip]
Think of it this way. You are being attacked. You have a gun.
What do you do with it? Shoot the attacker? (Oh, the attacker
is a bacterium and it's been multplying in your system for a
while now)

Well put. There is no effective defense against determined terrorists
who have worldwide support, short of a massive security clampdown at
home affecting every phase of life. Every inhabitant of the country
would have to be intimately available to the government security
apparatus, perhaps via imbedded micro chips or similar technology.
Border security would need a colossal budget. Anything short of that
(invading other countries, putting TFRs around football stadiums, hiring
more airport security, etc.), is vain political window dressing.

We are in a religious war. We didn't choose it, but we've got it.
These barbarians cannot be appeased, even should we be so foolish as to
try. They don't want peace, they want power: they want hegemony over
the entire Muslim world, including enclaves like Chechnya and Kashmir;
they want the total exclusion of Western cultural influence from every
Islamic country.

As you said, there is no realistic, i.e. practical, way to defeat these
murdering fanatics. We will keep hunting them down and killing them,
but there will always be plenty of eager replacements in the pipeline.

This is going to be a very ugly period in history. The spokesman
claiming responsibility for the Spanish bombings said "You love life, we
love death." That pretty neatly sums up the two sides in this war. In
such a struggle, the side that loves life is at a tactical disadvantage.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

We are in a religious war. We didn't choose it, but we've got it.


Really? Maybe we should take "separation of church and state" more
seriously here and break that link. Say what you will about these people
attacking us, but they are not stupid and they see the strong Christian
leaning of the US government administration.

Yes, I blame them for these cowardly acts, and no, I do not think they have
any justification for their barbaric acts against innocents, which is
against even their own religion. But let's be realistic here - anybody who
doesn't see the Bush administration, with its "faith-based" initiatives and
connection to the very right wing Church as crossing the line toward making
the US a Christian country must be fairly blind or strongly believe that
this direction is the Right Thing To Do.

There are Islamist extremists who see it very much as a religious war. They
twist their religion's desire for "justice" to justify their acts. But the
way we respond, and the very nature of our government, affects how Muslims
see us and impacts very directly on the extremist's support structure and
thus whether this war winds down or grows.

Yes, I blame them for these cowardly acts, and no, I do not think they
have
any justification for their barbaric acts against innocents, which is
against even their own religion. But let's be realistic here - anybody
who
doesn't see the Bush administration, with its "faith-based" initiatives
and
connection to the very right wing Church as crossing the line toward
making
the US a Christian country must be fairly blind or strongly believe that
this direction is the Right Thing To Do.

While I am uncomfortable with the religious right wing of the Republican
Party, I'm hard-pressed to list anything concrete Bush has done in their
favor.

I suppose you could list the ban on partial-birth abortion as happening
under his watch, but this procedure is so barbaric that most people --
Democrat or Republican -- shudder at this type of abortion. I see that law
as being outside of partisan politics -- but that's just me, I suppose.

And the Judge who tried to place the Ten Commandments on the front lawn of
the town courthouse (down South somewhere -- I forget) was summarily drummed
out of office...

While it is true that Bush is obviously a devout Christian, which may change
the *perception* of the U.S., I don't see that the country -- or the laws of
the U.S. -- have changed in any pro-Christian way under his watch.

If anything, the country went waaaaay conservative during the Clinton
presidency.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I suppose you could list the ban on partial-birth abortion as happening
under his watch, but this procedure is so barbaric that most people --
Democrat or Republican -- shudder at this type of abortion. I see that
law
as being outside of partisan politics -- but that's just me, I suppose.


We call the terrorists barbaric for killing innocents?

I suppose you could list the ban on partial-birth abortion as happening
under his watch, but this procedure is so barbaric that most people --
Democrat or Republican -- shudder at this type of abortion. I see that
law
as being outside of partisan politics -- but that's just me, I suppose.


We call the terrorists barbaric for killing innocents?

Yes. And your point is...?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:y585c.14265$po.186714@attbi_s52...
I suppose you could list the ban on partial-birth abortion as
happening
under his watch, but this procedure is so barbaric that most people --
Democrat or Republican -- shudder at this type of abortion. I see
that
law
as being outside of partisan politics -- but that's just me, I
suppose.


We call the terrorists barbaric for killing innocents?

Yes. And your point is...?
--
res ipsa locutor

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote:
We are in a religious war. We didn't choose it, but we've got it.


Really? Maybe we should take "separation of church and state"
more seriously here and break that link. Say what you will about
these people attacking us, but they are not stupid and they see the
strong Christian leaning of the US government administration.

We can't break that link no matter what we do, short of becoming a
fundamentalist Islamic republic. I contend that Al Qaeda would not have
changed a thing had Al Gore been elected.


- anybody who doesn't see the Bush administration, with its
"faith-based" initiatives and connection to the very right wing
Church as crossing the line toward making the US a Christian
country must be fairly blind

In fact I do see that, but it's mostly irrelevant to our terrorism
problem.

There are Islamist extremists who see it very much as a religious war.
They twist their religion's desire for "justice" to justify their
acts. But
the way we respond, and the very nature of our government, affects
how Muslims see us and impacts very directly on the extremist's
support structure and thus whether this war winds down or grows.

I agree completely. We face the challenge of making shrewdly calculated
responses against our enemies, lest we hand them cheap propaganda
victories.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Dan Luke wrote:

We can't break that link no matter what we do, short of becoming a
fundamentalist Islamic republic. I contend that Al Qaeda would not have
changed a thing had Al Gore been elected.

I find it disturbing when the chief executive of our republic proposes a
constitutional amendment based upon his faith. However, Dan's assertion is
correct. The terrorists would be no more pleased with us were we truly
nonsectarian. In fact, I suspect that we'd be considered even more of a
threat to the terrorists were we to actually live up to that ideal.

- Andrew

I find it disturbing when the chief executive of our republic proposes a
constitutional amendment based upon his faith.

Which one is that? The marriage thing?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article , "Peter
Gottlieb" wrote:

But let's be realistic here - anybody
who
doesn't see the Bush administration, with its "faith-based" initiatives
and
connection to the very right wing Church as crossing the line toward
making
the US a Christian country must be fairly blind or strongly believe that
this direction is the Right Thing To Do.

or they don't see boogey men behind the actions of those they hate.

--
Bob Noel