We Are All Spaniards

I need to take up one more point with your comments...

In principal, I do selfishly agree with you that American values of
freedom are preferred to Radical Islamic values of, well, whatever
Radical Islamic values are. However, I would tend to say that you are
naive if you truly believe that innocents don't die in most wars. The
difference is that the winner of the war generally doesn't talk about it
because it is not honorable. And at least with respect to American
History - we don't generally admire our heroes killing innocent people.
Perhaps Radical Islamists will honor and recall the names of their
"martyrs". More likely, the suicide bombers will be categorized as an
attack method, and only the names of the political and military leaders
will be remembered.

However, I would categorically point out that innocents have died at the
hands of Americans in many wars... And in other democratic countries,
innocents have died during wars too... It's war. That's what happens.

Of course, we've all heard about the innocent Vietnamese that were
killed. But we lost that war, so the heroes aren't portrayed for their
winning war tactics.

One of the other posters brought up the Native Americans... Do you think
any innocent Native Americans might have been killed back then? I haven't
read much about it in the history books, so maybe it didn't happen...

Do you think that no innocents died by American hands in World War II?
How about at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Do you think the A-Bomb of death
distinguished between civilians and military personnel when it liquidated
everyone there?

The problem is that the terrorists today give themselves scary sounding
names, pretend to be poorly organized, and hide their infastructure in
the shelter of countries who claim to be our allies, like Egypt, Saudi
Arabia, and Morroco. Our problem is the same with Foreign Policy as it is
with TFRs - sure the Prez will pull the trigger on Iraq - it's easy and
he's just finishing Dad's work anyway. But if he's too afraid to pull the
trigger on the nations who harbor and train our terrorists, he may as
well give up now because it's just a big show to make people feel safe
when they are not...


"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:OZ_4c.11522$1p.210809@attbi_s54:

I bet the British at the time would have disagreed with you. I am
certain they believed the American rebels / freedom fighters were
terrorists.

Terrorists kill innocents. America's rebels fought the British for
independence -- they didn't pointlessly blow up schools in far-flung,
unrelated locales.

Basically, when history finds a band of rebels or oppressed people who
fought their way to freedom, they war is called a War of Independence.

When they were suppressed, the war is called a rebellion, an uprising,
or a failed coup-de-tat...

To even suggest that El Queda operatives are fighting a "war of
independence" is offensive. They are killing innocents around the
world, for no apparent reason, with no goal other than terror and
suffering in mind, all in the name of Allah.

If anything can truly be classified as "insane," this is it.

Perhaps the agenda of modern-day terrorists is not as clear as the
agenda of the Independence fighters who fought for independence and
control of their own countries...

Their agenda is not freedom -- it is the downfall of Western
civilization, in the name of God.

"Judah" wrote in message
...
One of the other posters brought up the Native Americans... Do you think
any innocent Native Americans might have been killed back then? I haven't
read much about it in the history books, so maybe it didn't happen...

Let me think - that's a hard one - umm, umm, umm. I think every native
American was innocent until the white man came and began robbing them, then
killing them. Do you suggest that when the American Indian began to fight
back they stopped being innocent and then as a whole became guilty and
worthy of extermination? Genocide in today's parlance.

I don't suppose there is too much in the history books. It is not going to
say that the US people in building the nation were guilty of ethnic
cleansing, on a scale that make criminals out of today's ethnic cleansers.

Let me think - that's a hard one - umm, umm, umm. I think every native
American was innocent until the white man came and began robbing them,
then
killing them. Do you suggest that when the American Indian began to fight
back they stopped being innocent and then as a whole became guilty and
worthy of extermination? Genocide in today's parlance.

The Indians were here first.

They had no effective weapons, and the new settlers out-numbered them 1000
to 1.

They lost the land. It's called "conquest."

They'll get over it. My people did.

Yours probably did, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Let me think - that's a hard one - umm, umm, umm. I think every native
American was innocent until the white man came and began robbing them,


Nobody was innocent. The white man didn't do anything the indians
weren't already doing to each other for thousands of years. We were
just better at it.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:YRa5c.9395$J05.110561@attbi_s01...


Let me think - that's a hard one - umm, umm, umm. I think every native
American was innocent until the white man came and began robbing them,


Nobody was innocent. The white man didn't do anything the indians
weren't already doing to each other for thousands of years. We were
just better at it.

Quite so, and after the white man came, theft of property was strictly the
domain of common criminals or the IRS.

If the Arab Empire wins the war and rewrites history, I would pretty much
guarantee that you are wrong... They will claim all Americans were western
imperialist infidels who treaded upon the Nation of Islam, and the only
ones who weren't were the converts who supported and helped them win the
war.


"S Green" wrote in
:


"Judah" wrote in message
...
One of the other posters brought up the Native Americans... Do you
think
any innocent Native Americans might have been killed back then? I
haven't read much about it in the history books, so maybe it didn't
happen...

Let me think - that's a hard one - umm, umm, umm. I think every native
American was innocent until the white man came and began robbing them,
then killing them. Do you suggest that when the American Indian began
to fight back they stopped being innocent and then as a whole became
guilty and worthy of extermination? Genocide in today's parlance.

I don't suppose there is too much in the history books. It is not going
to say that the US people in building the nation were guilty of ethnic
cleansing, on a scale that make criminals out of today's ethnic
cleansers.

"Judah" wrote in message
...

If the Arab Empire wins the war and rewrites history, I would pretty much
guarantee that you are wrong... They will claim all Americans were western
imperialist infidels who treaded upon the Nation of Islam, and the only
ones who weren't were the converts who supported and helped them win the
war.


Well, then, we'll have to make sure the Arab Empire doesn't win the war.

Exactly. But the poster who got me onto my soapbox was the one that said
that the way to do that was to stop making foreign policy decisions that
****ed off Arab terrorists so that they would leave us alone...

I was just trying to help him see the endgame of his plan...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net:


"Judah" wrote in message
...

If the Arab Empire wins the war and rewrites history, I would pretty
much guarantee that you are wrong... They will claim all Americans
were western imperialist infidels who treaded upon the Nation of
Islam, and the only ones who weren't were the converts who supported
and helped them win the war.


Well, then, we'll have to make sure the Arab Empire doesn't win the
war.

Judah wrote in message . ..
If the Arab Empire wins the war and rewrites history, I would pretty much
guarantee that you are wrong... They will claim all Americans were western
imperialist infidels who treaded upon the Nation of Islam, and the only
ones who weren't were the converts who supported and helped them win the
war.

The terrorists (what is "the arab empire"?) are not after world
domination, but after their nation's freedom from western domination.
They want US and its allies to get out of the middle west.

"Alex" wrote in message
om...
Judah wrote in message
. ..
If the Arab Empire wins the war and rewrites history, I would pretty
much
guarantee that you are wrong... They will claim all Americans were
western
imperialist infidels who treaded upon the Nation of Islam, and the only
ones who weren't were the converts who supported and helped them win the
war.

The terrorists (what is "the arab empire"?) are not after world
domination, but after their nation's freedom from western domination.
They want US and its allies to get out of the middle west.

Jay H? Can you confirm or deny that we western domination and military
allies in Iowa?

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Jay B