We Are All Spaniards

"Friedrich Ostertag" wrote in message
...
Hi Tom,

And an effective alternative is...what?

better intelligence work could have prevented 9/11 for a start.

And what could we have done with that intelligence?

arrest the would-be pilots before they board the plane?

I would guess you realize it's not like in the James Bond movies, and
for
information to be even moderately accurate is a bonus.

what are the various agencies there for, if not to provide information
enabling such arrests?

Who is the arresting officer? The World Police Department?


I appreciate that it's not an easy job. Yet in
case of 9/11 it was found later, that such information was available.

And if it was? Send the Iraqi Secret Police to make the arrests?



Or
choosing our friends more wisely would be a good idea. E.g. not
supplying terrorists like OBL with weapons just because at the
moment
they are shooting them at people we don't like.

We supplied the Muhajeen with weapons to fight off the Soviets in
Afghanistan...that was a righteous fight. Oddly, we supplied the
Soviets
with Lend-Lease equipment 40 yers earlier. using that formula, we'd
never
had divorces between couple that once were in love but now want to
kill each
other.

It's not as if the Muhajeen had ever been in love with US or the West,
nor vice versa. They welcomed the weapons, but it was not so
unforseeable that they would just as well turn them against us.

We gave aid and weapons to South Korea and it did us very well. It turned
against us with the USSR and France, but not England.

Very little is forseeable -- hindsight is 20/20.



Who, under that measure, could we ever consider our "friends"?

People who share our values, a common conception of human rights.

Please note that I'm not ruling out military action as an option,
if
there is reason to believe that possible future terrorist acts can
be
prevented.

Prevented how?

arresting (or killing) the terrorists.

Who's going to make the arrests?


Afghanistan was justified in my view, given that the taliban
openly supported OBL, only the job was not finished (yet again!).

What would "finish" that job in your view?

To be honest, I don't know. Support in establishing a stable form of
gouvernment and also development, I suppose. It is a very difficult
job, that's for sure, but noone said it would be easy.

Well, how do we begin to "establish a stable from of government"?

BTW, recall that it took 6-8 years to get Japan and Germany back on their
feet after WW2.

Iraq
was never really about terrorism, was it?

They supplied equipment, training, military intelligence, possibly
funding.

Did they? I haven't read about any finds that back up that claim.
Wouldn't we know about that, given the short supply of WMDs as
justification for the war?

It's out there...just not in the mainstream media.

For example, two of the 9/11 terrorists met with the head of Iraqi
Intelligence shortly before they came to the US.


But even if this was the case: We should have much rather invaded Saudi
Arabia if that was our motivation.

With the resistance we had going into an obvious target like Iraq, how much
more resistance would there have been going into Saudi Arabia?


For Iraq, the US was the hurdle to his domination of the region; for
the
Islamic fundelemtalists, it was our open, free and "immoral, infidel"
society.

Yes, I agree with that.

With all the hot air about 9/11 being based on various grievances about US
policy, it's "funny" that all their spokesmen said it was NOT the case. "You
worship life, while we worship death" doesn't sound like a policy gripe.

In short, they hate our liberty, our prosperity and our immorality --see the
thread about Brittany Spears :~)

Hi Tom,

And what could we have done with that intelligence?

arrest the would-be pilots before they board the plane?

I would guess you realize it's not like in the James Bond movies,
and
for
information to be even moderately accurate is a bonus.

what are the various agencies there for, if not to provide
information
enabling such arrests?

Who is the arresting officer? The World Police Department?

Why? The terrorists boarded the planes in the US.

I appreciate that it's not an easy job. Yet in
case of 9/11 it was found later, that such information was
available.

And if it was? Send the Iraqi Secret Police to make the arrests?

see above.

The terrorists have spent prolonged time in Germany and the US.

Afghanistan was justified in my view, given that the taliban
openly supported OBL, only the job was not finished (yet
again!).

What would "finish" that job in your view?

To be honest, I don't know. Support in establishing a stable form
of
gouvernment and also development, I suppose. It is a very difficult
job, that's for sure, but noone said it would be easy.

Well, how do we begin to "establish a stable from of government"?

BTW, recall that it took 6-8 years to get Japan and Germany back on
their
feet after WW2.

Yes exactly. That's what I would call a finished Job and I'm very
grateful for that.

They supplied equipment, training, military intelligence,
possibly
funding.

Did they? I haven't read about any finds that back up that claim.
Wouldn't we know about that, given the short supply of WMDs as
justification for the war?

It's out there...just not in the mainstream media.

For example, two of the 9/11 terrorists met with the head of Iraqi
Intelligence shortly before they came to the US.


But even if this was the case: We should have much rather invaded
Saudi
Arabia if that was our motivation.

With the resistance we had going into an obvious target like Iraq,
how much
more resistance would there have been going into Saudi Arabia?

Go after a secondary target, when the main support for Al Quaida comes
from somewhere else? You really believe that this is going to help
much?

For Iraq, the US was the hurdle to his domination of the region;
for
the
Islamic fundelemtalists, it was our open, free and "immoral,
infidel"
society.

Yes, I agree with that.

With all the hot air about 9/11 being based on various grievances
about US
policy, it's "funny" that all their spokesmen said it was NOT the
case.

I'm obviously not a spokesman. I never blamed US policy for terrorism
in that way. While it is true, that these "grievances" are felt by some
Arabs, I certainly don't consider them justified. Unfortunately, if
played rightly by people like OBL, they can nonetheless be turned into
a burning desire to kill and hurt. Anything that will increase those
feelings, how unjustified they may be, will play right into OBLs hands.

I still believe that the war on Iraq did if anything raise the threat
of terrorism. Not because it was not in some way justifyable by the way
Saddam ridiculed the UN over the last 10 years and uncertainty about
his military potential, but because it humiliated the Arabs yet again,
while not significantly hurting the supplies of OBL.

In short, they hate our liberty, our prosperity and our
immorality --see the
thread about Brittany Spears :~)

Again, there is a lot of truth in that :-)

regards,
Friedrich

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