We Are All Spaniards

Hi Frank,

We (the world) will only defeat terrorism if we treat it as a problem
to be
solved rather than a war to be won. In some cases force will be
effective.
In some cases humamitarian efforts will do more. In some cases we may
have
to swallow some unpleasantness and do something we'd rather not. In
all
cases we should be looking to measure the results to see if we really
are
being effective.

sums it up very well, fully agreed.

regards,
Friedrich

Making no statement regarding the general conversation here, I'd suggest
that you read "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond for a reasonable
refutation of your supposition regarding the relative worth of cultures.

I read the book -- interesting stuff. Diamond makes some good observations.

It's too bad it's written and constructed so awkwardly -- which, IMHO, made
for a terrible read -- because it deserves a wider reading. It's just one
of those books that, given a good editor, could have been a truly fun read.
Instead, by the second chapter I was forcing myself to slog on, in hopes of
gleaning whatever the heck it was he was trying to say.

In the end, the slog is worth it -- but what a terrible price to pay for a
bit of insight!

He didn't change my view of the world -- but his book does present an
interesting alternative viewpoint.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So you think that if they are successful at pushing the Jews out of
Israel, they will just be content and stop?

Sure... I can see that happening. Give Israel over to Palestine, and we
will all of a sudden have World Peace!


(jhandl) wrote in
om:

Judah wrote in message
. ..
To Arab terrorists and their supporters, Israel is their land, and the
Jews who control it need to be pushed back into the sea at all costs.
It was the promise that was made to them by their parents in 1967 when
they left.

And in their mind, anyone who disagrees with them is an Infidel who
deserves to be killed in the name of Allah. That is how they justify
murdering innocent people with suicide bombs.

So you see, if we sit quietly and keep our nose out of the other
country's business, it will only be a matter of time that the Arabs
come after us anyway. Except when they finally do they will be more
powerful, and they won't need to attack us in pot-shots like spiders
in the woods.

You contradict yourself: either the terrorists want the control of
Israel, or they are after world domination. Hitler was after world
domination. The islamic terrorists are not. You seem to fear that the
rest of the world is like th US...
Don't fear, it's not.

In article Byp7c.56556$SR1.102160@attbi_s04, "Marc J. Zeitlin"
writes:

Wdtabor wrote:

OK, I'm about done with the Poor Mistreated Noble Savage crap.....
Our people came here and in 400 years built a nation that feeds the
world and
touched the moon. We earned this place. It is ours. They fell by the
wayside
because their culture stifled progress and inovation......
Cultures are subject to natural selection just like species.

Making no statement regarding the general conversation here, I'd suggest
that you read "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond for a reasonable
refutation of your supposition regarding the relative worth of cultures.


I don't really have time just now to read some book that might, or might not,
be relevant to what I said. If you have an argument to advance, please do so.

But I am not trying to compare the relative worth of cultures, I am comparing
results. Had the Amerindian culture rewarded knowledge and ambition as ours
did, considering the vast resources thay had at their disposal, a successful
culture would have been large and strong enough to resist us.

Instead, they were still in the stone age after 11,000 years. It doesn't matter
how noble or valuable they might have been from some subjective viewpoint,
objectively they failed.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

In article , Judah
writes:


So you think that if they are successful at pushing the Jews out of
Israel, they will just be content and stop?

Sure... I can see that happening. Give Israel over to Palestine, and we
will all of a sudden have World Peace!


Yeah, feeding the crocodile always works.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

Martin Hotze wrote in message . ..
On 19 Mar 2004 16:18:08 -0800, pacplyer wrote:

Freedom Alex, is exactly what the sole remaining superpower says it
is. Unlike most Americans, I don't believe that everyone deserves it.

Freedom has to be earned.

Excuse me? Who are you? A slave owner?

Please, Martin, he's not worth your effort...


Martin Hotze wrote in message . ..
On 19 Mar 2004 16:18:08 -0800, pacplyer wrote:

The rest of the world hates us anyway because we have a very high
standard of living here

thre are many countries with a higher standard.

and we are truely free to enjoy life, liberty,
and the pursuit of flying little airplanes.

true

I shutter to think what
would happen to me if I wrote the above in downtown Tehran.

you would not make many friends.

(which is
the next place we need to take off the map.)

says who? and why should one wonder if some guy in Teheran thinks the same
about NY?

#m

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


"Frank" wrote in message ...

The Palestinians have many legitemite beefs and in that respect
are certainly fighting for their freedom.


In what way are they fighting for their freedom?

Depends.....

If one believes they have a legitimate right to a country then the answer is
obvious.

If one believes otherwise, that is that Israel owns the land free and clear,
then they must be fighting for equal rights as citizens.

I don't know the answer, but as a simple test answer this question. Should a
Palestinian be voting in an Israeli election or not. If not then where?

Because I think we'd all agree that if one isn't allowed to vote, then one
isn't free.
--
Frank....H

"Wdtabor" wrote:
But I am not trying to compare the relative worth of cultures, I am
comparing results. Had the Amerindian culture rewarded knowledge
and ambition as ours did, considering the vast resources thay had at
their disposal, a successful culture would have been large and strong
enough to resist us.

So conquest and extermination of one culture by another is justified on
the grounds that it's the conquered culture's fault for being weaker
than the conqueror?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Wdtabor wrote:

I don't really have time just now to read some book that might, or
might not,
be relevant to what I said. If you have an argument to advance, please
do so.

As I said, I have no argument to advance.

But I am not trying to compare the relative worth of cultures, I am
comparing
results. Had the Amerindian culture rewarded knowledge and ambition as
ours
did, considering the vast resources thay had at their disposal, a
successful
culture would have been large and strong enough to resist us.

And the book I mentioned describes why your analysis of the relative
effects of "cultural" differences is incorrect. The results are clearly
the same, but how we got there matters, and your interpretation of that
(according to "Guns, Germs, and Steel") is flawed.

Instead, they were still in the stone age after 11,000 years. It
doesn't matter
how noble or valuable they might have been from some subjective
viewpoint,
objectively they failed.

Yes, but not due to their culture, which is what you were emphasizing.
That's the only point I was trying to make.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin