Forgot to close flight plan

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:HPqbc.69612$1I5.51059@fed1read01...

if you are IFR and complete an IFR approach to a "towered" filed,
when the tower is open, the TOWER automatically cancels your
IFR when you taxi clear of the runway


If you are IFR and complete an IFR approach to a "towered" filed, when the
tower is open, the tower does nothing with regard to your IFR when you taxi
clear of the runway.

Mr. Tomblin said he files IFR because somebody else closes the flight plan
that way. Most fields do not have control towers.

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
Mr. Tomblin said he files IFR because somebody else closes the flight plan
that way. Most fields do not have control towers.

The ones I fly IFR to almost all do. And when I'm flying into
podunk-ville, so far the approach controller giving me a phone number is
sufficient memory prod that I haven't failed to call on my cell phone
while taxing to the tie downs.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Nazis are part of *every* government, everywhere, in all of human
history. They're just not always called that.
-- J.D. Baldwin

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

The ones I fly IFR to almost all do. And when I'm flying into
podunk-ville, so far the approach controller giving me a phone number is
sufficient memory prod that I haven't failed to call on my cell phone
while taxing to the tie downs.


In other words, your statement is not correct in all cases, which makes it
an incorrect statement.

If you are IFR and complete an IFR approach to a "towered" filed, when the
tower is open, the tower does nothing with regard to your IFR when you taxi
clear of the runway.


in the US, IFR flight plans are closed automatically sometime after the flight
is completed, when the flight is completed at a towered airport when the tower
is open.

How does this happen? (real question)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

in the US, IFR flight plans are closed automatically sometime after
the flight is completed, when the flight is completed at a towered
airport when the tower is open.

How does this happen? (real question)


It happens by arriving at your destination. If you didn't arrive at your
destination a search would be initiated. Because you did arrive nothing
needs to be done.

It happens by arriving at your destination. If you didn't arrive at your
destination a search would be initiated. Because you did arrive nothing
needs to be done.


By arriving... by when? I ask because until you have arrived, you haven't
arrived. Action is triggered by action, not by inaction. So, if inaction (not
arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause must be something like a timer
going off.

It is this detail I'm looking for.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

It happens by arriving at your destination. If you didn't arrive at your
destination a search would be initiated. Because you did arrive nothing
needs to be done.


By arriving... by when?


By the time forwarded to the tower.



I ask because until you have arrived, you haven't arrived.


That's deep.



Action is triggered by action, not by inaction.


Not in this case.



So, if inaction (not arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause
must be something like a timer going off.


Why?



It is this detail I'm looking for.


There is no more detail.

By arriving... by when?

By the time forwarded to the tower.

So, if inaction (not arriving) is the cause, then the proximate cause
must be something like a timer going off.

Why?


To give meaning to the part that says "by the time forwarded to the tower".

The tower is sent an "expect arrival at 5:34". At 5:36 the plane arrives.
What is different about the two minutes after 5:34 compared to the two minutes
before 5:34? Just that at 5:34, 5:34 happened, and that is special because it
is an expected arrival time that was not consummated.

So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No? Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search would
be initiated.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff fails
under IFR. This is another reasonable interpretation, when "handoff" is
expanded to include "expected position report". But then, each ETA (EPRT)
would function as the "alarm" I am talking about... getting reset every time.

Is this pretty much the way it happens?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:


The tower is sent an "expect arrival at 5:34".

It will be printed on a flight progress strip.


At 5:36 the plane arrives.
What is different about the two minutes after 5:34 compared to the two minutes
before 5:34?

None. Make it 20 minutes, still no difference.


Just that at 5:34, 5:34 happened, and that is special because it
is an expected arrival time that was not consummated.

But if you landed at 5:36, where were you at 5:34? Say about 3 miles
out? Think the tower might know that? Think the approach controller
might know that?



So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No?

No, no alarm went off because we knew exactly where you were.


Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search would
be initiated.

Right.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff fails
under IFR.

Handoffs fail for any number of reasons. Like your cheap ass
transponder isn't sending a signal right now so I can't take the handoff
from the center because my computer won't take handoffs like that.
Modem failure. Other telephone line failure. You're too low for my
radar coverage. If the you are still in radio contact with ATC then we
don't need to go look for you. If all the electrics fail we'll do a
manual handoff. And when you land we will do exactly nothing, except
file the strip. Because nothing needs to be done. You're here and ATC
knows that.


This is another reasonable interpretation, when "handoff" is
expanded to include "expected position report".

That's not a handoff.


But then, each ETA (EPRT)
would function as the "alarm" I am talking about... getting reset every time.

If center has no radar with you they will ask for position reports.
When you fail to report he will call you on the radio. If you don't
answer he will start a search.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
So, at least in somebody's mind, an alarm went off at 5:34. No?
Otherwise
there is nothing special about the two minutes afterwards, and no search
would
be initiated.

AFAIK, the search & rescue aspect is the same for IFR and VFR. ATC has
nothing to do with it, except that when an IFR flight arrives at a towered
airport, the controller contacts the FSS (who is the entity waiting for the
"timer to go off") to close the IFR flight plan on the pilot's behalf.

That is, unless what you mean is that a search begins any time a handoff
fails
under IFR.

AFAIK, a failed handoff doesn't *automatically* start a search. ATC may in
fact prompt a search to begin if the loss of communications is accompanied
by some other evidence that there was an accident. Otherwise, normal lost
comm procedures would prevail, which basically just mean ATC clears the
route filed and/or cleared. Thirty minutes after the filed arrival time, if
the aircraft hasn't shown up and the FSS hasn't been told to close the
flight plan, *then* search & rescue would begin.

Pete