We Are All Spaniards

Doug Carter wrote in message ...
Alex wrote:

What? I thought we'd extended NAFTA to South America, and joined GATT
and the WTO... We've been buying Mexican and Venezuelan oil for
decades, etc, etc, etc...


Ok, I was talking about southamerican countries where the US installed
dictatorships. Trade was not the motivation and the current lack of
trade agreements in those countries proves it.

In 2002 the U.S. exported commodities worth some $29
billions to South America and imported $48 billions worth.
See:
http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/industry/o...ea/rsamer.html

Doug, please!!! I said there are no trade AGREEMENTS, not that there
was no trade whatsoever! I was answering Rob's totally naive
assumption that the US would only interfere with foreign governments
to help people, enhance their living standard, make trade agreements,
etc.

If trade is not the motivation to install dictatorships
what was it?

Do you really need me to spell it out for you?

The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard". Your dear politicians decided it was better
to have tens of thousands of innocent people tortured and killed so
you could live comfortably in your cozy homes. Even when there was no
intention of these countries of turning "Cuba".

Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.
And it doesn't even show all that happened. Once you have seen it, add
torture and violation of pregnant women, appropriation of babies and
denial of their true identity... I live in a country that has gone
through that. I have been personally affected.

And just to show you how futile the US tactics regarding "lefties"
were, the current president of Argentina is precisely the kind of
"lefty" the US was most worried about back in the 70's. He survived
the US backed local military and now is in power. Does that represent
a threat to the US? Of course not, as it didn't 30 years ago, but your
politicians were so paranoid about it that they went along with the
killings.

McCarthy was considered crazy and you all still remember how it hurt
the US. We were killed by the thousands by that very same paranoia,
yet you managed to convince yourself that it didn't happen, that the
US stands only for freedom and peace. Even in the face of current
events, where literally the same "preventive attack" tactics are being
used, you still defend it.

It makes me sick.

Alex wrote:

Doug, please!!! I said there are no trade AGREEMENTS, not that there
was no trade whatsoever!

TRICK QUESTION: what pays the bills, trade, or trade
agreements?


THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".


THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:15:50 -0600, Doug Carter wrote:

THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".

well, this is not really anything new. The US holds the whole world as its
backyard, at least they try to.

THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

begin quote
| Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
| talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.
end quote

#m
--
A far-reaching proposal from the FBI (...) would require all broadband
Internet providers, including cable modem and DSL companies, to rewire
their networks to support easy wiretapping by police.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028-5172948.html

Martin Hotze wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:15:50 -0600, Doug Carter wrote:

THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".

well, this is not really anything new. The US holds the whole world as its
backyard, at least they try to.

THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

begin quote
| Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
| talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.
end quote

#m

Vielen Dank, Martin! Ich hätte es nicht besser sagen können.
Tschüss!

Martin Hotze wrote

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.


We find many witnesses in South America:

http://www.rense.com/general32/abduct.htm
http://www.labyrinthina.com/contact.htm
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/7409
http://www.para-normal.com/compendium/550.htm
http://www.ufoorganisation.com/Repor...y2003No001.htm

The "evidence" is far too vague and weak to be consistent with the reported
quantity and quality of aledged encounters.

I'm not saying this is all false, just that there is not nearly enough to
convince me otherwise.


"Doug Carter" wrote in message
...
Martin Hotze wrote

nice to not quote the next sentence he wrote. I quote it for you:

Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.


We find many witnesses in South America:

http://www.rense.com/general32/abduct.htm
http://www.labyrinthina.com/contact.htm
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/7409
http://www.para-normal.com/compendium/550.htm
http://www.ufoorganisation.com/Repor...y2003No001.htm

Doug Carter wrote in message ...
Before you tell me that a movie can lie, please remember that you are
talking with a witness of the kind of horror that this movie shows.

We find many witnesses in South America:
http://www.rense.com/general32/abduct.htm
http://www.labyrinthina.com/contact.htm
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/7409
http://www.para-normal.com/compendium/550.htm
http://www.ufoorganisation.com/Repor...y2003No001.htm

Doug, my sister has been tortured by the military while she was
"missing". She gave birth in jail. She and her son are exceptional in
that she survived and he wasn't taken away. Nobody in the world denies
this kind of things happened, not even the militaries. The democratic
government that followed recognized the state did wrong and payed her
and countless outher survivers money in damages. Last week our
president publicly asked for forgiveness in the name of the State.

You compare my country's well documented and universally accepted
history and my own family's history to a bunch of ufo sighters, which,
by the way, are by no means exclusive of South America?

Doug: you are a despicable asshole.

Alex wrote:
You compare my country's well documented and universally accepted
history and my own family's history to a bunch of ufo sighters...

The point of that post was to satire the rather persistant
lack of documentation. With what you have presented so
far you may be correct and accurate or a Turing machine

Doug: you are a despicable asshole.

With a sense of humor.

Doug Carter wrote in message ...
Alex wrote:

Doug, please!!! I said there are no trade AGREEMENTS, not that there
was no trade whatsoever!

TRICK QUESTION: what pays the bills, trade, or trade
agreements?

Doug, you seem to suffer from short-term memory loss. Let me refresh
it for you: Rob said the US interfered for, amongst other things,
trade agreements. I countered that by pointing out that in South
America they had interfered, and there was no trade agreement until 30
years later. Now you tell me that there is trade, which is true, but
completely misses the point.

Doug Carter wrote
THE ASSERTION:
The US installed numerous dictatorships in South America for one
reason: the fear that somehow communism would take hold of what US
considered its "backyard".

THE EVIDENCE:
Have you ever heard of a movie called "Missing"? This is a 1982
nonfiction movie, with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Unless you fear
your beliefs can be shaken by a simple movie, I dare you to watch it.

Look, I feel like I'm talking to brainwashed zombies here. You'll
obviously resort to the lowest means just to avoid a straight answer.
You don't want to listen to other points of view? You don't want to
know what it is like outside of the US? Fine. Have it your way. You're
gona have it anyway, because you can come to my home to kill me and be
a hero at the same time. Good for you. Bye.