which frequencies are all?

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

You will note that I said "associated with", not "located at".


I note that you said, "Even though a given approach may serve only one
airport, it's not associated with that airport, it's associated with a
center." Not only are such facilities associated with the airport they
serve, they are located on them.



My use of the term "center" may not have been 100% correct,
but it was the best term I could think of, and it's irrelevant anyway.


It was 0% correct.



The point is not what "approach" is associated with, it's the fact
that "approach" is not associated with a specific airport.


That's not a fact, that's your opinion. While you're certainly entitled to
your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.



Consider the following pairs of approach frequencies and
Chicago airport groups:

118.4 - KMDW, KIGQ, KCGX (now closed)

119.0 - KORD

133.5 - KDPA, KARR, KDKB

120.55 - KPWK, KUGN, 3CK, C81

119.35 - KLOT, KJOT, 1C5

Which makes my point that a given "approach" frequently serves
more than one airport.

And keep in mind that when you call any of those guys up, it's "Chicago
Approach...", not "O'Hare Approach" or "Midway Approach".


Well, since you believe an approach control is associated with a center, why
don't you call these guys "Chicago Center" when you call them up?



More evidence that "approach" is not associated with a specific airport.

Which means my advice to the original poster is still valid...


Approach controls ARE associated with airports, that's the reason they were
created.

Let's look at an example of a middle of the road approach control facility;
Madison TRACON in Madison, Wisconsin. Madison approach serves and is
located on Truax Field in Madison. They also serve eight other airports
with SIAPs in the area, but about 85% of MSN TRACON's traffic is generated
by Truax Field. MSN TRACON was created for the purpose of handling
instrument operations at Truax Field. Once it was created it was in a
position to provide services to these other airports and does so, but it
would never have been created if Truax Field was not there. Without Truax
there would be no Madison TRACON and Chicago Center would be providing IFR
services to these other airports on a full-time basis.

If you want to argue semantics, knock yourself out. But you'll have to do it
by yourself 'cause I have a life.

The point is, if you get an ATIS message that all frequencies are combined
on 999.9 for a specific airport, approach WILL NOT be included in the
services that can be reached on that frequency. Because approach is not
associated with any specific airport even though it may only serve a single
airport.

You mentioned Madison, WI. If you are flying into KMSN do you call up
"Madison approach" or "Truax approach"?

I rest my case...



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

You will note that I said "associated with", not "located at".


I note that you said, "Even though a given approach may serve only one
airport, it's not associated with that airport, it's associated with a
center." Not only are such facilities associated with the airport they
serve, they are located on them.



My use of the term "center" may not have been 100% correct,
but it was the best term I could think of, and it's irrelevant anyway.


It was 0% correct.



The point is not what "approach" is associated with, it's the fact
that "approach" is not associated with a specific airport.


That's not a fact, that's your opinion. While you're certainly entitled
to
your own opinions you are not entitled to your own facts.



Consider the following pairs of approach frequencies and
Chicago airport groups:

118.4 - KMDW, KIGQ, KCGX (now closed)

119.0 - KORD

133.5 - KDPA, KARR, KDKB

120.55 - KPWK, KUGN, 3CK, C81

119.35 - KLOT, KJOT, 1C5

Which makes my point that a given "approach" frequently serves
more than one airport.

And keep in mind that when you call any of those guys up, it's "Chicago
Approach...", not "O'Hare Approach" or "Midway Approach".


Well, since you believe an approach control is associated with a center,
why
don't you call these guys "Chicago Center" when you call them up?



More evidence that "approach" is not associated with a specific airport.

Which means my advice to the original poster is still valid...


Approach controls ARE associated with airports, that's the reason they
were
created.

Let's look at an example of a middle of the road approach control
facility;
Madison TRACON in Madison, Wisconsin. Madison approach serves and is
located on Truax Field in Madison. They also serve eight other airports
with SIAPs in the area, but about 85% of MSN TRACON's traffic is generated
by Truax Field. MSN TRACON was created for the purpose of handling
instrument operations at Truax Field. Once it was created it was in a
position to provide services to these other airports and does so, but it
would never have been created if Truax Field was not there. Without Truax
there would be no Madison TRACON and Chicago Center would be providing IFR
services to these other airports on a full-time basis.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

If you want to argue semantics, knock yourself out. But you'll
have to do it by yourself 'cause I have a life.


I argue with facts and logic.



Because approach is not associated with any specific airport
even though it may only serve a single airport.


Sorry, that's simply not the case. I take it you're not a pilot?



You mentioned Madison, WI. If you are flying into KMSN do you
call up "Madison approach" or "Truax approach"?

I rest my case...


You call "Madison Approach", just as you call "Madison Tower" and "Madison
Ground. Would you also make the case that tower and ground are not
associated with any specific airport?

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:17:54 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Approach controls ARE associated with airports, that's the reason they were
created.

Let's look at an example of a middle of the road approach control facility;
Madison TRACON in Madison, Wisconsin. Madison approach serves and is
located on Truax Field in Madison. They also serve eight other airports
with SIAPs in the area, but about 85% of MSN TRACON's traffic is generated
by Truax Field. MSN TRACON was created for the purpose of handling
instrument operations at Truax Field. Once it was created it was in a
position to provide services to these other airports and does so, but it
would never have been created if Truax Field was not there. Without Truax
there would be no Madison TRACON and Chicago Center would be providing IFR
services to these other airports on a full-time basis.


I have a side question to this... Is it ever the case that an approach
is created because the combination of many small airports makes it a
good idea/worthwhile? I'm specifically thinking of Cape TRACON in
this instance. It seems to control a mismash of airports, MVY, ACK,
HYA, etc. Or maybe sometime in the past it was more tied to a
particular airport and then as traffic grew it expanded its reach?

I guess those sorts of things are pretty much only decided on the
basis of traffic volume?

aw

aaronw wrote in message . ..

I have a side question to this... Is it ever the case that an approach
is created because the combination of many small airports makes it a
good idea/worthwhile? I'm specifically thinking of Cape TRACON in
this instance. It seems to control a mismash of airports, MVY, ACK,
HYA, etc. Or maybe sometime in the past it was more tied to a
particular airport and then as traffic grew it expanded its reach?


I believe that facility was originally created to primarily serve Otis AFB.

aaronw wrote in message . ..

I have a side question to this... Is it ever the case that an approach
is created because the combination of many small airports makes it a
good idea/worthwhile? I'm specifically thinking of Cape TRACON in
this instance. It seems to control a mismash of airports, MVY, ACK,
HYA, etc. Or maybe sometime in the past it was more tied to a
particular airport and then as traffic grew it expanded its reach?


I believe that facility was originally created to primarily serve Otis AFB.