Multi-Engine Before Commercial?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
In fact, I have often said that nobody should be
allowed to get a CFI ticket until he has demonstrated a loop, spin,
and roll solo in an appropriate aircraft.


To expand a little further on my earlier post, I simply note that nobody is
beating down your door asking your opinion of what the certification
requirements for a CFI should be. The supply of 10,000 hour ex-fighter jocks
willing to take CFI jobs at less than minimum wage appears to be somewhat
limited, to say the least.

Although I have done loops, spins, rolls, etc., perhaps I am not as
impressed with myself for having done them as you are. They are undeniably a
lot of fun. But do they really help you to learn to teach? I think not.

Frankly, your incessant criticism of flight instructors, airline pilots,
pilots in general, mechanics, the FAA, and virtually everybody else involved
with aviation puts you at odds with a whole lot of people that I suspect
might know a little bit more than you do. Your generalizations have gone
beyond mere ignorance and have entered the realm of being dangerous.

Your demands for extreme qualifications place you on the lunatic fringe.

"C J Campbell" wrote
To expand a little further on my earlier post, I simply note that nobody is
beating down your door asking your opinion of what the certification
requirements for a CFI should be. The supply of 10,000 hour ex-fighter jocks
willing to take CFI jobs at less than minimum wage appears to be somewhat
limited, to say the least.

Actually, there are more than a few out there. Quite a few of the
people who taught me fit into that category, if only loosely. There
are plenty of them who are interested in instructing - but few care to
work for some guy who treats them like burger flippers and thinks he
knows it all because he wrote the big check. You have to find them -
they're not looking for you. It's well worth it, though. You learn a
lot of things the average instructor won't teach you.

Although I have done loops, spins, rolls, etc., perhaps I am not as
impressed with myself for having done them as you are. They are undeniably a
lot of fun. But do they really help you to learn to teach? I think not.

Wait until the first time a student inadvertently puts you into a
spin, then come back and tell me about it.

Frankly, your incessant criticism of flight instructors, airline pilots,
pilots in general, mechanics, the FAA, and virtually everybody else involved
with aviation puts you at odds with a whole lot of people that I suspect
might know a little bit more than you do.

Any criticism of an entrenched system ALWAYS puts the critic at odds
with the people who benefit from that system. So what else is new?

Your generalizations have gone
beyond mere ignorance and have entered the realm of being dangerous.

Dangerous to your business, perhaps, but not otherwise.

Your demands for extreme qualifications place you on the lunatic fringe.

Do you truly think a solo loop, spin, and roll are extreme
qualifications? To me it's just a demonstration to an insurance
company and/or FBO (hence solo) that you have developed a minimal
level of proficiency in flying a minimally aerobatic airplane in
something other than level flight. The fact that you suggest this is
an extreme qualification speaks volumes.

I can't think of a single experienced pilot (never mind instructor)
who does not recognize the intrinsic value of aerobatic and tailwheel
training. And yet you come out and claim that they're a waste of time
because you can't see the difference in the pilots. Then you call me
a lunatic. I think you should have stuck with arrogant - at least
that's honest, even if there is more than a bit of the pot calling the
kettle black there.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"C J Campbell" wrote
To expand a little further on my earlier post, I simply note that nobody
is
beating down your door asking your opinion of what the certification
requirements for a CFI should be. The supply of 10,000 hour ex-fighter
jocks
willing to take CFI jobs at less than minimum wage appears to be
somewhat
limited, to say the least.

Actually, there are more than a few out there. Quite a few of the
people who taught me fit into that category, if only loosely.

Really? Who were these instructors? What were their actual qualifications?


Although I have done loops, spins, rolls, etc., perhaps I am not as
impressed with myself for having done them as you are. They are
undeniably a
lot of fun. But do they really help you to learn to teach? I think not.

Wait until the first time a student inadvertently puts you into a
spin, then come back and tell me about it.

Already happened. What do you want to know about it? Most of them just do
what you tell them to do to get out of the spin. A few say "Wheeee! Let's do
it again!" which makes me wonder how inadvertant it was. Only one froze and
asked me to take the plane. I made him practice stalls until the cows came
home.


Frankly, your incessant criticism of flight instructors, airline pilots,
pilots in general, mechanics, the FAA, and virtually everybody else
involved
with aviation puts you at odds with a whole lot of people that I suspect
might know a little bit more than you do.

Any criticism of an entrenched system ALWAYS puts the critic at odds
with the people who benefit from that system. So what else is new?


Ah. Just like all the other crackpots, you think you are Galileo fighting
the establishment. Now I understand.


Your demands for extreme qualifications place you on the lunatic fringe.

Do you truly think a solo loop, spin, and roll are extreme
qualifications?

I think your hourly requirements are ridiculous. Your ideal flight
instructor appears to be somebody who spends no time flight instructing.

"C J Campbell" wrote
Actually, there are more than a few out there. Quite a few of the
people who taught me fit into that category, if only loosely.

Really? Who were these instructors? What were their actual qualifications?

One was a retired naval captain, qualified in airplanes, gliders,
rotorcraft, and airships, later turned lawyer. He had 17,000+ hours
when last he added. He (among others, including a NASA flight
training specialist now turned cropduster) taught me to fly gliders.

One was a former RIO turned airline pilot, with 12,000+ hours, 2000+
in taildraggers ranging from J-3 to DC-3. He taught me to fly
tailwheel.

One was a former guard tanker pilot turned airline captain with
14,000+ hours, including 1500+ in light twins. He taught me
multiengine flying and repaired the damage to my instrument flying
that had been done by the timebuilder who got me the instrument
rating.

One was a former reserve fighter pilot (from the piston fighter days),
test pilot, and aerobatic competitor, now retired. I never asked him
how many hours he had. He checked me out in a biplane and taught me
the rudiments of acro.

The fascinating part was that the most any of them charged was
$35/hour, and this was all in the past few years (I've only been
flying for a decade). Only one was associated with an FBO, and you
had to know who he was and ask for him. This kind of high quality
instructor is available when you look carefully.

Although I have done loops, spins, rolls, etc., perhaps I am not as
impressed with myself for having done them as you are. They are
undeniably a
lot of fun. But do they really help you to learn to teach? I think not.

Wait until the first time a student inadvertently puts you into a
spin, then come back and tell me about it.

Already happened.

And you're telling me that it would have been no big deal if you
hadn't done loops, spins, and rolls. And you expect me to believe it.

Ah. Just like all the other crackpots, you think you are Galileo fighting
the establishment. Now I understand.

You undesrtand nothing. I repeat - any criticism of an entrenched
system always puts the critic at odds with those who benefit from that
system. That doesn't make the critic right; neither does it make him
a crackpot. But the fact that a system exists and is entrenched
doesn't mean that it's not in need of major criticism.

I think your hourly requirements are ridiculous. Your ideal flight
instructor appears to be somebody who spends no time flight instructing.

That has at least a grain of truth in it - my ideal flight instructor
is not someone who spends all or even most of his flight hours
instructing. Those who spend all their time teaching something
generally lose touch with what it is they're teaching, eventually.
Those who start teaching as soon as they finish training were never in
touch to begin with. You can't teach what you don't know, and you
can't know what you haven't done.

This is not unique to aviation - the university environment is a
perfect example. The most useful information is learned from those
professors who actually work in industry and teach what they know.
Learning from ivory tower academics and their teaching assistants only
teaches you material of value in academia. I still recall when I was
working on my graduate degree in chemical engineering, teaching other
students - and years away from knowing the difference between sweet
and sour crude.

Michael