Another Cirrus crash

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:24:14 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

Never given me a problem with either hand drive car, except perhaps
occasionally trying to change gear with the door handle immediately
after getting in whichever type I've not driven in a while.

Don't you find yourself signalling turns with the windshield wipers?
I do.

No argument about airplanes though. Luscombe or Champ -- stick and
throttle hand-switching is the easiest part of the transition.

Don

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:24:14 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

Never given me a problem with either hand drive car, except perhaps
occasionally trying to change gear with the door handle immediately
after getting in whichever type I've not driven in a while.

Don't you find yourself signalling turns with the windshield wipers?
I do.

Of course! But I do that when I switch cars in the US sometimes.

When you cross the Atlantic (either way) and drive for a few days, the day
will come when your vigilance will drop a notch. You will turn out of a
major road into a minor road, and you'll find you are on the wrong side of
the road.

Happens every time. The USAF manual for living in England
(Mildenhall/Lakenheath) even mentioned it, back when.

-- David Brooks

"Toly" wrote in message
m

Piper's ride is solid and predictable, and you can relax and enjoy the
ride, while Cirrus is too slippery and manually flying one demands
constant control inputs to the point that it wears you out very soon.
I have suspicion this may be true for most metal vs. composite
aircraft.

Is it "metal v. composite" or different design considerations in the
respective airframes?

Don't get me wrong. I haven't so much as sat in a Cirrus much less flown
one, but it seems that the Cirrus was designed as a higher performing
airframe than the Piper models you mentioned. I'm just wondering if the
Cirrus designers sacrificed some stability to achieve that performance.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

probably rusty on that W/B , 4 adult males in a 200 hp airplane.


John T wrote:

"Otis Winslow" wrote in message


What is it about these that has them involved in so many
crashes? Are they that difficult to fly? Are there some
gotchas with them?

Rusty pilots?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

I don't use the electric trim in my turbo arrow either, its hard to get the
plane trimmed using it because its to easy to over trim.

John Harper wrote:

Errm.... have you ever sat in a Cirrus (either kind)? There
is ONLY electric trim. No comforting trim wheel down
by your right hand.

fwiw in my plane (182RG) I never use the electric trim,
partly because it doesn't work very well and partly because
I've just never got into the habit. (Funny, because the couple
of times I flew a Mooney Bravo it seemed like second nature
to use the electric trim).

John

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:yDmhc.18215$432.12208@fed1read01...
the electric trim is so fast you can't trim the plane for hands-off
flying (and therefore have to use the autopilot) IS.

what's wrong with the manual trim...

BT

the SR20 is not that much higher performing.
its a 200 hp engine that does about 156 KTAS (per their website), thats about
6 kts faster then my 200 hp turbo arrow is all - and at 14000 ft I can go
faster then a SR20 (about 165 KTAS)

the SR22 with its 310 HP engine is something else now.
But compare it to other planes with a 310 HP engine.


John T wrote:

"Toly" wrote in message
m

Piper's ride is solid and predictable, and you can relax and enjoy the
ride, while Cirrus is too slippery and manually flying one demands
constant control inputs to the point that it wears you out very soon.
I have suspicion this may be true for most metal vs. composite
aircraft.

Is it "metal v. composite" or different design considerations in the
respective airframes?

Don't get me wrong. I haven't so much as sat in a Cirrus much less flown
one, but it seems that the Cirrus was designed as a higher performing
airframe than the Piper models you mentioned. I'm just wondering if the
Cirrus designers sacrificed some stability to achieve that performance.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

That's a good question. I tend to think it's the material, not the
design. Cirrus actually is a stable airplane, I just found it too
twitchy. I think the airframe is so slick that it's very sensitive to
minute air disturbances, while most metal a/c are "dirty" enough to
ignore them. However, without experience in other composite a/c it's
just a guess... I'd love to hear what other pilots would say...

-Toly.

"John T" wrote in message ews.com...
"Toly" wrote in message
m

Piper's ride is solid and predictable, and you can relax and enjoy the
ride, while Cirrus is too slippery and manually flying one demands
constant control inputs to the point that it wears you out very soon.
I have suspicion this may be true for most metal vs. composite
aircraft.

Is it "metal v. composite" or different design considerations in the
respective airframes?

Don't get me wrong. I haven't so much as sat in a Cirrus much less flown
one, but it seems that the Cirrus was designed as a higher performing
airframe than the Piper models you mentioned. I'm just wondering if the
Cirrus designers sacrificed some stability to achieve that performance.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 at 13:48:06 in message
, Tom Sixkiller
wrote:

I once sat in a English/Right hand drive car with stick shift and just
couldn't get the hang of shifting with the left hand without missing
gears...

Maybe it has something to do with the angle of your arm/hand when it's off
to the side??

The other way around for me: the first time I drove a left hand drive
car I kept trying to change gear with the window winder and looking up
and left for the centre mirror. When I got my arm in the right place I
had no trouble changing gear though. I am right handed.

Later I adjusted fairly easily when I got to drive in the USA,
especially with an automatic!
--
David CL Francis

In article , Don Tuite wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:24:14 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

Never given me a problem with either hand drive car, except perhaps
occasionally trying to change gear with the door handle immediately
after getting in whichever type I've not driven in a while.

Don't you find yourself signalling turns with the windshield wipers?
I do.

No - only in some models of Japanese cars where the wiper
switch/indicator switch is the other way around from the rest of the
world's cars!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Toly

I disagree with you. After 23 years of owning a C172 & 18 months of owning a
Cirrus, there is no comparison ther than both fly.
The higher wing loading of the Cirrus makes it slide through turbulence that
used to be uncomfortable in the Cessna.
Twitchy? you have to explain in more depth what you mean. Pain in the neck to
use the electric trim? Yes, but really is just a matter of getting used to the
sensitivity of the switch. Most, if not all Cirrus owners ( except ArtP) get
used to it. The fallback is to use the auto pilot which will trim the plane.
Once disconnected, the plane stays pretty much in trim, though I admit I prefer
the trim wheel of the Skyhawk.

John