Cirrus SR22 Purchase advice needed.

"Vaughn" writes:

We are not talking about a trainer, we are talking about an advanced,
owner-flown, plane that will occasionally end up in an inadvertant spin. Any
pilot that has enough experience to be flying one shout at least be able to
recite the standard spin recovery procedure.

Saying that the plane "will occasionally end up in an inadvertent
spin" is a lot like calling it a plane that "will occasionally end up
crumpled on the side of a mountain in clouds and freezing rain." You
have to be trying really hard to spin one; it's hard to pin that on the
plane.

We can probably all recite the standard spin recovery procedure. I
suspect that a significant number of us have never experienced a spin
nor actually done the procedure, and should it happen in real life will
probably be really confused and disoriented for long enough to die.

When I moved to California I was able to recite the standard earthquake
procedure, but when it happened the first time I had no idea what was
happening to me until it was already over...

"Dave Katz" wrote in message
...
"Vaughn" writes:

Saying that the plane "will occasionally end up in an inadvertent
spin" is a lot like calling it a plane that "will occasionally end up
crumpled on the side of a mountain in clouds and freezing rain." You
have to be trying really hard to spin one; it's hard to pin that on the
plane.


Nicely put. Actually I think it must be pretty hard to spin just about
anything accidentally, but people do. The plane gives you a LOT of
warning before it stalls - any plane. For a start it slows down, which
is fairly noticeable. (I forget exactly what I was doing over the weekend,
but for whatever reason I ended up a few knots slow - nowhere near
stalling - and it immediately just felt wrong, before I even looked at
the airspeed and confirmed it). It has a high angle of attack. In many
planes (though not really the case in high-wing Cessnas) there is a buffet.
(There is in the Cirrus iirc). Then to spin a wing will start to drop, and
in the Cirrus you will still have some aileron control even if you do the
wrong thing and try to fix it with the stick. At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and wait).

That said, it strikes me that everyone ought to do some spin training,
maybe after they've got a few more hours than during PPL training.
It's fun, it's interesting, and it could save your life.

Now if you want a plane that is a challenge to fly, I flew a Waco over
the weekend. Now THAT is different. Things like absolutely zero
forward visibility during taxi, take-off and landing - and precious
little even when you're flying. I'll admit that my first couple of take-offs
and landings were not that great (well, none of them were really
GREAT but they did get better). But boy, what a lot of fun.

John

In article 1082997048.902464@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper
wrote:

At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and wait).

NOT TRUE!!!
Go back and re read Gene Beggs' SPORT AEROBATIC articles.

What do you mean, "go back"? I've never read them in the
first place...


"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article 1082997048.902464@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper
wrote:

At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and wait).

NOT TRUE!!!
Go back and re read Gene Beggs' SPORT AEROBATIC articles.

In article 1082997048.902464@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper
wrote:
At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and wait).

"EDR" wrote in message
...
NOT TRUE!!!
Go back and re read Gene Beggs' SPORT AEROBATIC articles.In article 1083006290.499387@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper wrote:

What do you mean, "go back"? I've never read them in the
first place...

Then what did you base your comment on?
(I have the original three articles.)

What I read elsewhere. However I did have the technique
wrong, it seems (after a bit of surfing). I thought you took
your feet off the pedals, and that's not so, just your hands off the
stick. (Before everybody rushes in and says "you terrible
incompetent inept pilot, glad I'm not sharing the airspace
with you, etc etc etc" - I do practice spin recoveries quite
often, but using the "full" technique).

I guess I should try my "modified" M-B technique sometime
in the incipient phase. After all M-B are talking about a fully
developed spin, i.e. after 3 turns, and in the original context
of this thread, if you haven't spotted that something is wrong
after three turns of a spin (and tried to do something about it)
then your piloting skills are probably not your greatest concern.

Trouble is while my head finds spins fascinating, my stomach
feels otherwise, so I never do more than a couple in a single
flight - generally as I'm leaving the practice area, which in turn
is generally because my stomach is already suggesting it's
time to go home.

John


"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article 1082997048.902464@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper
wrote:
At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and
wait).

"EDR" wrote in message
...
NOT TRUE!!!
Go back and re read Gene Beggs' SPORT AEROBATIC articles.In article
1083006290.499387@sj-nntpcache-3, John Harper wrote:

What do you mean, "go back"? I've never read them in the
first place...

Then what did you base your comment on?
(I have the original three articles.)

John Harper wrote:

At this point in just about
any plane, Muller-Beggs will work fine (let go of everything and wait).

Try that in a Maule with some load configurations, and you're gonna die.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

"Dave Katz" wrote in message
...
"Vaughn" writes:


Saying that the plane "will occasionally end up in an inadvertent
spin" is a lot like calling it a plane that "will occasionally end up
crumpled on the side of a mountain in clouds and freezing rain."

True, but most planes can recover from a spin but not from a crash into
a mountain so I don't get your comparison.

You have to be trying really hard to spin one; it's hard to pin that on
the
plane.

I am not blaming the plane! This is a serious plane that will be flown
IFR by owner-pilots who do not fly actual IFR every day; as such, it will
occasionally end up in a spin. The BRS will give a wonderful last-ditch
option that a certain Kennedy would have appreciated, but IMO that does not
substitute for the capability of recovering normally should you spin out of
the bottom of a cloud or (for example) end up in an inadvertant
training-induced spin.

Again, I love the BRS but think that it should not substitute for
live-saving flying qualities.


We can probably all recite the standard spin recovery procedure. I
suspect that a significant number of us have never experienced a spin
nor actually done the procedure, and should it happen in real life will
probably be really confused and disoriented for long enough to die.

That is a whole 'nuther thread.

Vaughn

"Dave Katz" wrote in message
...
"Vaughn" writes:

We are not talking about a trainer, we are talking about an
advanced,
owner-flown, plane that will occasionally end up in an inadvertant spin.
Any
pilot that has enough experience to be flying one shout at least be able
to
recite the standard spin recovery procedure.

Saying that the plane "will occasionally end up in an inadvertent
spin" is a lot like calling it a plane that "will occasionally end up
crumpled on the side of a mountain in clouds and freezing rain." You
have to be trying really hard to spin one; it's hard to pin that on the
plane.


No, you don't have to be trying real hard to spin one. If this were true,
people would not be dying due to approach and departure stalls.

We are a many of us excellent pilots on the ground. Stuff happens in the
air. People make mistakes.



We can probably all recite the standard spin recovery procedure. I
suspect that a significant number of us have never experienced a spin
nor actually done the procedure, and should it happen in real life will
probably be really confused and disoriented for long enough to die.

When I moved to California I was able to recite the standard earthquake
procedure, but when it happened the first time I had no idea what was
happening to me until it was already over...