Pinckneyville Pix

Wow! It takes a mighty small man to care enough to make such a big
noise.

You ought to know Moon Man. Only the **** ant Cessna 150 drivers like
you are the depth that attends the PJY "attempted" fly-in nowadays.

What do we see on the ramp...ahh, a Cessna 172, you might be able to
fly that, but certainly not the Stinson or the Twin Commanche. What a
massive fly in...what a massive attendance.

Gee, I realy feel like I missed something since I missed connecting
with you there and gleening your wisdom. We could have had a
conversation about the approach speed of a 150 or a standard rate turn
maybe...nah, you wouldn't know what a standard rate turn is.

Flunk out of grad school again Moon Man? Go back over to that History
department where you belong and leave science and flying to the real
men.

BWB

(Badwater Bill) wrote
Wow! It takes a mighty small man to care enough to make such a big
noise.

You ought to know Moon Man. Only the **** ant Cessna 150 drivers like
you are the depth that attends the PJY "attempted" fly-in nowadays.

What do we see on the ramp...ahh, a Cessna 172, you might be able to
fly that, but certainly not the Stinson or the Twin Commanche. What a
massive fly in...what a massive attendance.

Well, I'm the guy who flew that Twin Comanche in - because my
homebuilt glider wasn't up to the trip. And you know - from where I'm
sitting, I think the Moon Man has a point. You gonna make fun of me
now?

Michael

Well, I'm the guy who flew that Twin Comanche in - because my
homebuilt glider wasn't up to the trip. And you know - from where I'm
sitting, I think the Moon Man has a point. You gonna make fun of me
now?

Michael

Well, what's the ****in' point? Moon Man is dog **** as a pilot. You
wanna lend your twin Commanche to him so he can show us all how he can
fly it? I think you might be stupid if you did.

Better let your insurance man know before hand.

So, what's your point? I don't follow? I've owned three twin
Commanches in my life. Big deal. A twin Commanche is a slug on the
way to nowhere nowadays, but I'll bet you a grand that Moon Man
couldn't even start the engines if you put his lard ass in the
cockpit.

In fact I'll bet that 95% of the idiots who read your bull **** here
couldn't start the ****ing engines if their lives depended upon it.

BWB

(Badwater Bill) wrote
Well, I'm the guy who flew that Twin Comanche in - because my
homebuilt glider wasn't up to the trip. And you know - from where I'm
sitting, I think the Moon Man has a point. You gonna make fun of me
now?

Well, what's the ****in' point?

That it takes a mighty small man to make such a big noise over some
pictures of a party.

A twin Commanche is a slug on the way to nowhere nowadays

See, nothing is ever good enough for you. Now you feel the need to
put down my airplane too. OK, fine, it's a slug. I bet if someone
showed up in a jet, you would find a way to put that down too.

In fact I'll bet that 95% of the idiots who read your bull **** here
couldn't start the ****ing engines if their lives depended upon it.

You must have owned Twin Comanches with poorly adjusted fuel servos.
Too bad. It's not that hard to adjust them properly. Mine start
easily.

Certainly the Cessna pilot who wanted a ride didn't have any problem
starting my engines. Took all of 30 seconds to explain how. Way less
time than it took you to try and belittle everyone here. BTW, with
just a little coaching he did pretty good flying it, too. I even let
him land it.

Enjoy your vitriol, but remember that Pinkneyville is a party. No
more, no less. It's not Oshkosh, and it's not supposed to be. For me
it's a chance to see people I know through the 'net but don't
otherwise meet. It was a good weekend.

I hung out with some old friends, told a few tall tales and listened
to a few more, drank a few beers, helped a fellow with a cold jug on
his engine get it running again, flew a twin I hadn't flown before,
watched an impromptu airshow, and generally had a good time. BTW -
what did YOU do that weekend?

Michael

Enjoy your vitriol, but remember that Pinkneyville is a party. No
more, no less. It's not Oshkosh, and it's not supposed to be. For me
it's a chance to see people I know through the 'net but don't
otherwise meet. It was a good weekend.


Now ain't that sensitive! Ain't that tender!

I hung out with some old friends, told a few tall tales and listened
to a few more, drank a few beers, helped a fellow with a cold jug on
his engine get it running again, flew a twin I hadn't flown before,
watched an impromptu airshow, and generally had a good time. BTW -
what did YOU do that weekend?

You wouldn't believe me if I told you. You'd come back with another
of the endless follow ups you morons concoct to make yourselves feel
you have superior skills. Would you believe that I was with Jim
Campbell at Mohave just as Burt Rutan's boys were about to make a 55
second burn and attained 212,000 feet msl at apogee in their space
ship?

Nah, you'd never believe that. In fact you probably don't even know
about the project. You spend too much time reading your own posts
here to know about what's important in the rest of the aviation world.

That twin Comanche is slow, it has dangerous flat spin characteristics
with one engine out, and no useful load. If you weigh a couple
hundred pounds and you fill it with fuel, you'll only get two more
medium sized people in it without busting gross.

But, my point was not to run down your airplane. My point was to run
down the people. I actually think twin Comanches are fun to fly, even
though they burn 15 gallons per hour and only go 160 mph. A
Cessna-210 has the same burn but does 200 mph, plus carries 1000
pounds of people when it's full of fuel.

But most of the people who read this group wouldn't know that, or
know the differences. Just like they don't know the differences
between what we all once envisioned the RAH fly-in to become. But, as
you said, it's just a party now. You can thank people like Sydney and
Moon Man for that. All the real deep talent quit attending long ago.
It is now what you people want it to be, the lowest common
denominator, not a fly-in of any substantial depth, just John
Johnson's annual picnic. A place where he can run around bitching
about how he's losing his ass and needs more money because he ****ed
off the guy who subsidized "His Party" long ago.

Just a picnic anymore where you can go and meet Sydney, Ha Ha. Gee,
I guess that's what I missed to go to Mohave that weekend.

Just a party! Yep. I have to give you credit for that remark. You
couldn't have said it better.

BWB





Michael

Bill Phillips wrote:

BTW - what did YOU do that weekend?

...Would you believe that I was with Jim
Campbell at Mohave just as Burt Rutan's boys were
about to make a 55 second burn and attained
212,000 feet msl at apogee in their space
ship?

Cool story but irrelevant to the question at hand
since there was more than a week between the two events.

Spaceship One Flight #3, the high altitude flight: 13 May 04
The weekend Michael asked about: 21-23 May 04

Related: The first space attempt is scheduled for 21 June
and is open to the public. Don't need a press pass or
an invite to be JAFO.

Dave 'calendar boy' Hyde

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:29:48 GMT, "nauga" wrote:

Bill Phillips wrote:

BTW - what did YOU do that weekend?

...Would you believe that I was with Jim
Campbell at Mohave just as Burt Rutan's boys were
about to make a 55 second burn and attained
212,000 feet msl at apogee in their space
ship?

Cool story but irrelevant to the question at hand
since there was more than a week between the two events.

Spaceship One Flight #3, the high altitude flight: 13 May 04
The weekend Michael asked about: 21-23 May 04

Related: The first space attempt is scheduled for 21 June
and is open to the public. Don't need a press pass or
an invite to be JAFO.

Dave 'calendar boy' Hyde

Yep, you are right Nagua it was the week before. When you get my age,
you are lucky if you can remember what year it is or if you took a
**** today or not.

Since all of you find my life so interesting as you sit at home and do
nothing, I have to apologize for getting the days confused. I should
have known that some anal retentive engineer would take issue with
such a post and bounce me on it. Here's an accounting of my time. Of
course I feel obligated to do this for all of you who have no lives.

Actually after the Mohave run, my buddy Jim Campbell and I were at
that Air Traffic controller's convention here in Vegas. Those were
the days following Burt's run. However, you won't expect this, so I
have to tell you the following:

The famous weekend of the PJY picnic I was in Sierra Vista, Arizona
just south of Tomestone on the Mexican border working with some
engineers and the Border Patrol on the design of special seismic
sensors. Since all of this is the business of RAH, I must pontificate
further.

I have a great solution to protecting the border using R-44 Raven
II's. The problem is, that it doesn't cost enough. Homeland Security
hands out billion dollar grants like popcorn but 100 , R-44 police
helicopters at $500k each puts 100 observation platforms in the air
for $50 million. It's just too cheap to get their attention. Also,
you can run them 2000 hours a year for another million each. So, for
$50 million in equipment and about another $100 million per year to
operate them, you seal the Mexican-U.S. border.

During Viet Nam, I had buddies who flew P-3's over the Ho Chi Mhin
trail dropping sonobouys. The sonobouys had parachutes on them and
would land in the upper canopy of the jungle and start recording
sound. We'd fly back by the next day and interrogate them. In this
way we could find out where the gooks were building up for a big
offensive.

The borders can be monitored in the same way. You bury a geophone
every 500 feet along the whole border. When you get a hit, you fly
out in a ($0.5 million) Robie R-44 instead of a ($8 million) Black
Hawk, and take action. you get 16 aerial platforms for the price of
one that way. You can even use the internet as your relay network.
The geophones transmit to a repeater that sends the data up to Hughes
99 west and puts it on the Internet. In that way, you can listen to
the whole border at once. No fences, no walls, and even if they
tunnel, the geophones will hear them. You don't even need to put
geophones along the entire border, you can start out putting them just
at the hot spots

If Homeland Security wanted to put these sensors along the entire
border, it would only cost about $4 million bucks. That plus the
helicopters which are all factory equipped with FLIR and video
xmitters to ground stations, gives you live video of the border over
the Internet too. It's all so simple because of the Internet, it's
actually a trivial thing to implement.

The real problem with my solution is that it just doesn't cost enough.
Even if you include Canada you are only looking at about $150 million
in helicopters and $200 million per year to opperate them. It's just
too cheap and DHS (Dept. of Homeland Security) would never buy it
because they want to give away billion dollar grants to study the
problem. Others want the borders to be open and that's why there are
2 illegal aliens coming across the Mexican border each minute of each
day.

So, go figure.

And that's what I was doing and where I was on the weekend of the
famous annual PJY picnic. I hope this meets with all of your
approvals. I was trying to do something positive for my country, but
I have no idea how much I did or how much they listened.

BWB

"nauga" wrote in message link.net...
Bill Phillips wrote:

BTW - what did YOU do that weekend?

...Would you believe that I was with Jim
Campbell at Mohave just as Burt Rutan's boys were
about to make a 55 second burn and attained
212,000 feet msl at apogee in their space
ship?

Cool story but irrelevant to the question at hand
since there was more than a week between the two events.

Spaceship One Flight #3, the high altitude flight: 13 May 04
The weekend Michael asked about: 21-23 May 04

Related: The first space attempt is scheduled for 21 June
and is open to the public. Don't need a press pass or
an invite to be JAFO.

Dave 'calendar boy' Hyde



Dave;

Now that I know zzzzzoom was in attendance at Mohave I wish that I
had continued my trip that day. I was at Edwards trying to visit the
museum that very day. I had planned to go on to Mohave, but after
being turned away from Edwards due to security (they weren't letting
anyone in without a base sticker). I turned around and headed back to
Victorville. When I checked the net that night I found out about the
Spaceship One flight. I was really bummed that I didn't head on over.
Now that I know that zzzzoom was there I am sure that my presence
would have ruined his day.
Now that you are about to become a resident of the Peoples Republic
of California have you found housing for your plane. I know a guy at
Chino (CNO) that has a hangar open.

Frank

(Badwater Bill) wrote
what did YOU do that weekend?

You wouldn't believe me if I told you. You'd come back with another
of the endless follow ups you morons concoct to make yourselves feel
you have superior skills. Would you believe that I was with Jim
Campbell at Mohave just as Burt Rutan's boys were about to make a 55
second burn and attained 212,000 feet msl at apogee in their space
ship?

I might believe that. But I didn't ask where you WERE, I asked what
you DID. It's pretty cool that Burt Rutan's boys got that altitude.
I'm sure it was really cool to design that ship, and even cooler to
fly it. Might even have been cool to work on it. So is that what you
did? Or were you just a spectator?

That twin Comanche is slow, it has dangerous flat spin characteristics
with one engine out, and no useful load. If you weigh a couple
hundred pounds and you fill it with fuel, you'll only get two more
medium sized people in it without busting gross.

Full fuel, 3 200-pounders, and some bags - and you've hit gross -
that's about right. As for dangerous flat spin characteristics -
well, I prefer not to spin twins at all so their spin characteristics
don't concern me, but if you feel the need you go right ahead.

But, my point was not to run down your airplane. My point was to run
down the people.

Well, at least you're admitting it. That's something. Now tell me,
why is that important to you?

I actually think twin Comanches are fun to fly, even
though they burn 15 gallons per hour and only go 160 mph.

You must have had some really crappy Twin Comanches. Their engines
wouldn't start and they would only go 160 mph on 15 gph. Well, don't
feel bad about it. My first plane was a dog too. But just FYI, your
speed estimate is low by about 15% for that fuel burn, at least for a
reasonably rigged plane with properly functioning engines. Are you
sure you had your fuel servos adjusted properly?

A
Cessna-210 has the same burn but does 200 mph, plus carries 1000
pounds of people when it's full of fuel.

I've never seen a normally aspirated C-210 that would do 200 mph but
whatever. BTW - how does it perform with one engine out?

But most of the people who read this group wouldn't know that, or
know the differences. Just like they don't know the differences
between what we all once envisioned the RAH fly-in to become.

If you stop ingesting mind-altering chemicals, you might stop seeing
those visions. If not, I'm sure competent psychiatric help is
available.

Seriously, I've read your stuff. Workshops on riveting, fabric and
dope, and whatever else. There's already a fly-in for that. It's
called Oshkosh.

But, as you said, it's just a party now... just John
Johnson's annual picnic.

And the problem here is what?

You want a flyin that will be something different? One that will suit
your tastes? Go ahead, put one on. Nobody is stopping you. I even
promise to show up in my slug airplane. Drag your C-210 out; we'll do
some low passes in formation if you can keep up.

Michael