R in a Circle (Airport Surveillance Radar) on VFR charts

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

The R in a circle symbol next to an airport on Sectionals nindicates
that this airport has Airport Surveillance Radar. But what does this
really indicate to the VFR pilot?

At Reading, Pennsylvania (KRDG) there is such a symbol. This
(Class D Airspace) airport has its own Approach control (shared
position in the tower, actually). Unfortunately at no place on the
Sectional is a frequency for approach given, even on the tables next
to the chart.

At Nantucket, Mass. (KACK) there is such a symbol. This (Class D
Airspace) airport does not have approach control. Radar services are
provided by Cape Approach during the day and Boston Center
during the night. (Active times are not given, but there are boxes on
the map itself that indicate what frequency to use for Cape Approach).

Stewart Intl, NY (KSWF) also has such a symbol. Radar services are
provided by New York TRACON.
(all of these airports are on the NY Sectional).

So what does this symbol really mean? At one airport where it is used,
the airport has a hidden-from-the-chart approach frequency. (The
frequency is of course available in the Airport/Facility Directory and
IIRC via ATIS among other places). At other airports, radar services
are provided by facilities that also provide service to many other
airports (without the R symbol.)

The only thing that I can think of is that it indicates there is a radar
(ASR) antenna on the field for a class D facility. Then again, Class D
airspace airport KMDT (Harrisburg Int'l) has such an antenna (atop the
hill nearby), but no such R in a circle icon on the sectional. It does
however had a surrounding TRSA with a TRACON, so perhaps that
is why no R in a circle is necessary.


The blue R in a circle symbol is used to indicate the presence of ASR where
there is no other indication. It would be superfluous at the core airports
in Class B and C airspace and TRSAs. It doesn't matter where the approach
control facility is located.

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot? For
example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class D, Cape
Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard Haven (Martha's
Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No R-in-circle)? Both airports have a
number of approaches, including ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.

Hi,

PMJI...

Recently, Jeff Saylor posted:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

The blue R in a circle symbol is used to indicate the presence of
ASR where there is no other indication. It would be superfluous at
the core airports in Class B and C airspace and TRSAs. It doesn't
matter where the approach control facility is located.

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot?
For example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class
D, Cape Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard
Haven (Martha's Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No
R-in-circle)? Both airports have a number of approaches, including
ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.

Steven gave a useful response by stating that "It doesn't matter here the
approach control facility is located." All the pilot needs to know is who
to talk to. This information is listed in a legend on the back of the
chart. ;-)

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:

Hi,

PMJI...

Recently, Jeff Saylor posted:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

The blue R in a circle symbol is used to indicate the presence of
ASR where there is no other indication. It would be superfluous at
the core airports in Class B and C airspace and TRSAs. It doesn't
matter where the approach control facility is located.

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot?
For example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class
D, Cape Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard
Haven (Martha's Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No
R-in-circle)? Both airports have a number of approaches, including
ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.

Steven gave a useful response by stating that "It doesn't matter here the
approach control facility is located."

That's true, but my question is, what maks this information useful to the
pilot? That is, how does the blue R/Circle symbol benefit the (VFR) pilot?
What is available at the airport with a blue R/Circle that is not available
at an (non TRSA or Class c&d) airport lacking the symbol?

All the pilot needs to know is who
to talk to. This information is listed in a legend on the back of the
chart. ;-)

As I mentioned earlier, that is not (necessarily) true. Take the example of
KRDG, which has the blue R/Circle symbol. Just try to find the approach
frequency for that airport anywhere on the sectional! (It isn't there, even
on the back of the chart, the side, etc..)

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot?


It tells the pilot where ASR is located when there is no other indicator and
how to obtain radar services.



For example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class
D, Cape Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard
Haven (Martha's Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No
R-in-circle)? Both airports have a number of approaches,
including ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.


If you're operating IFR it's not an issue. If you're operating VFR, you
wouldn't know that radar services were available if the information was not
published somewhere. What better place to put it than the sectional, the
publication most used by VFR pilots?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

Ok, I get that, but what makes this information useful to the pilot?


It tells the pilot where ASR is located when there is no other indicator and
how to obtain radar services.


For example, what is available to a pilot landing at Nantucket (Class
D, Cape Approach, R-in-circle) that is not available at Vineyard
Haven (Martha's Vineyard with Class D, Cape Appraoch, No
R-in-circle)? Both airports have a number of approaches,
including ILS that controllers can vector pilots to.


If you're operating IFR it's not an issue. If you're operating VFR, you
wouldn't know that radar services were available if the information was not
published somewhere.

Thanks for the explanation, although I haven't found any more or less radar
services to be available at KACK (Nantucket, w/ the R symbol) than at KMVY
(Vineyard Haven) or even KPVC, which was why I am curious.


What better place to put it than the sectional, the
publication most used by VFR pilots?

Sounds good. I just wish they felt the same away about approach control
frequencies for airports such as KRDG.

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the explanation, although I haven't found any more or
less radar services to be available at KACK (Nantucket, w/ the
R symbol) than at KMVY (Vineyard Haven) or even KPVC,
which was why I am curious.


The symbol indicates where the ASR is located, of course radar services are
available at other airports within range. Typically 30 miles or more.



Sounds good. I just wish they felt the same away about approach
control frequencies for airports such as KRDG.


In the Airport Data block there should be an ATIS frequency or a "VFR Advsy"
frequency, (more likely ATIS). At fields with ATIS the recording should
have the frequency for traffic advisories, at fields without ATIS the VFR
Advsy frequency will be in the data block.

The symbol indicates where the ASR is located, of course radar services are
available at other airports within range. Typically 30 miles or more.


All well and good, but the pilot needs to know whether services are available
at the airport of intended landing. To scour the thirty miles of nearby
airrports for an (R) makes more work for the pilot (though less work for the
cartographer.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

All well and good, but the pilot needs to know whether services
are available at the airport of intended landing.


Why?

All well and good, but the pilot needs to know whether services
are available at the airport of intended landing.

Why?


Because that's the airport he intends to land at.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the explanation, although I haven't found any more or
less radar services to be available at KACK (Nantucket, w/ the
R symbol) than at KMVY (Vineyard Haven) or even KPVC,
which was why I am curious.


The symbol indicates where the ASR is located, of course radar services are
available at other airports within range. Typically 30 miles or more.

Nantucket has the only (R) in Cape Approach's coverage area. Does this mean
that the only radar antenna for Cape Approach's coverage area is at Nantucket?
I ask because there is a large radar antenna in Truro, Mass (Cape Cod). On the
sectional, it even says "radomes" as a landmark feature near Truro. Perhaps
this antenna is for Cape Approach, although I suppose it could be for Boston
Center, weather, or who-knows-what. If it is indeed a Cape Approach antenna
perhaps it would be useful to have the R on the chart.

(Boston Center can handle approaches when Cape Approach is closed, but I don't
know if they use ARTCC radar or Cape's.

Sounds good. I just wish they felt the same away about approach
control frequencies for airports such as KRDG.


In the Airport Data block there should be an ATIS frequency or a "VFR Advsy"
frequency, (more likely ATIS). At fields with ATIS the recording should
have the frequency for traffic advisories, at fields without ATIS the VFR
Advsy frequency will be in the data block.

That's true, the Reading ATIS does give the approach freq. I don't see how it
would have hurt any to put Reading Approach's frequency in the listings on the
side of the chart where other approach frequencies are listed though.