Flap angles

"zatatime" wrote in message

Thank you for this information! .... One of my biggest pet peeves
are CFIs who actually teach people to slip a 172 with flaps.


???????

Did you read what Cpt Moore posted?

On Sun, 16 May 2004 19:16:16 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"zatatime" wrote in message

Thank you for this information! .... One of my biggest pet peeves
are CFIs who actually teach people to slip a 172 with flaps.


???????

Did you read what Cpt Moore posted?

Completely. Depending on the model you will have different flight
characteristics while performing a forward slip. I doubt very
seriously that a typical flight instructor will have an in depth
conversation on models made in '72 and later, vs a straight tail, vs
everything in between (hell many don't even bother to make sure a
student knows the difference between a forward slip and a side slip)
so I would err on the side of caution and advise against teaching
slips as a general rule in 172 / 182s.

z

A great way to descend quickly in a 172 is full flaps, cross controls
into a slip, and descend at the top of the white arc. Learned it from
more than one CFI. I personally have yet to observe the pitching
phenomenon described, but I have been aware of it's existence for years.

Dave

zatatime wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 19:16:16 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"zatatime" wrote in message

Thank you for this information! .... One of my biggest pet peeves
are CFIs who actually teach people to slip a 172 with flaps.


???????

Did you read what Cpt Moore posted?


Completely. Depending on the model you will have different flight
characteristics while performing a forward slip. I doubt very
seriously that a typical flight instructor will have an in depth
conversation on models made in '72 and later, vs a straight tail, vs
everything in between (hell many don't even bother to make sure a
student knows the difference between a forward slip and a side slip)
so I would err on the side of caution and advise against teaching
slips as a general rule in 172 / 182s.

z

My experience was with 40 degrees of flaps and a full forward slip (at
altitude), the aircraft pitched abruptly downward (like a chain was
connected from the ground to the nosewheel). Not only was it very
uncomfortable, but it taught me a valuable lesson about the aircraft.
I was in a '62 or '63.

Your post and the fact that you have learned this from "many
instructors" re-enforces my ideology.

I honestly hope you never experience this at low altitude.

z

On Mon, 17 May 2004 03:24:05 GMT, Dave S
wrote:

A great way to descend quickly in a 172 is full flaps, cross controls
into a slip, and descend at the top of the white arc. Learned it from
more than one CFI. I personally have yet to observe the pitching
phenomenon described, but I have been aware of it's existence for years.

Dave

zatatime wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 19:16:16 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"zatatime" wrote in message

Thank you for this information! .... One of my biggest pet peeves
are CFIs who actually teach people to slip a 172 with flaps.


???????

Did you read what Cpt Moore posted?


Completely. Depending on the model you will have different flight
characteristics while performing a forward slip. I doubt very
seriously that a typical flight instructor will have an in depth
conversation on models made in '72 and later, vs a straight tail, vs
everything in between (hell many don't even bother to make sure a
student knows the difference between a forward slip and a side slip)
so I would err on the side of caution and advise against teaching
slips as a general rule in 172 / 182s.

z

The effect of slips with full flaps on some high wing Cessnas is on
the elevators, not the rudders. As a result, there's no real
difference for that maneuver between the straight and swept tail. If
there is a difference it's with the airplanes that have rear windows
versus the earlier ones that don't, due to the flow of the downwash
off of the flaps over the rear fuselage. Because the downwash may not
be consistent on the elevators as the airflow changes during the slip
it is suggested, not required, on some Cessnas, that slips be avoided
with full flaps. There is no such suggestion on models such as the
Cardinal. Even at its worst, the downwash change as the slip changes
only causes a very mild pulse in the control wheel that you feel as a
tug. It's a nonevent, but pilots who haven't experienced it before
can get excited because it is new.

BTW, there is absolutely no aerodynamic difference between a forward
and side slip. The difference is relative to track across the ground
once wind comes into play. The airplane is doing the same thing
aerodynamically no matter what sort of ground track is desired.

All the best,
Rick

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 16 May 2004 19:16:16 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"zatatime" wrote in message

Thank you for this information! .... One of my biggest pet peeves
are CFIs who actually teach people to slip a 172 with flaps.


???????

Did you read what Cpt Moore posted?

Completely. Depending on the model you will have different flight
characteristics while performing a forward slip. I doubt very
seriously that a typical flight instructor will have an in depth
conversation on models made in '72 and later, vs a straight tail, vs
everything in between (hell many don't even bother to make sure a
student knows the difference between a forward slip and a side slip)
so I would err on the side of caution and advise against teaching
slips as a general rule in 172 / 182s.

z