Another ID change for Smoketown? (37PA, Q08, S37)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

The strange thing is that they bothered removing the identifier that
had already been issued; there must have been a compelling reason
to make a change beyond the fact it didn't meet the criteria for a
new 3 letter.


I'm not sure I follow you. Many airports have had their identifiers changed
when they no longer met the criteria for the previous identifier. That
seems to be the case with Drummond Airport.

But my point is, what is the compelling reason to change now? Presumably the
criteria for three letter id's is somewhat strict because the availability of
three letters is pretty finite.

Some non collocated VORs have had their ID changed from the same as the nearby
airport (e.g. Williamsport, Pa), some have not (e.g. Manchester, Nh; Pottstown,
Pa). Perhaps the relatively recent K prefix for lower 48 airports has
rendered the changes unnecessary.

I wouldn't be surprised if KDRU shows up somewhere else in
the next few years.


I think that unlikely. Remember, the identifier for Drummond VOR is still
DRU, only the airport identifier was changed.

Maybe they needed it for 40N

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

But my point is, what is the compelling reason to change now?


Does there have to be a compelling reason? Criteria for identifiers have
been established, many identifiers are being changed because they don't fit
the criteria. I think that's all there is to it.



Some non collocated VORs have had their ID changed from the
same as the nearby airport (e.g. Williamsport, Pa), some have not
(e.g. Manchester, Nh; Pottstown, Pa).


Yes, I believe I mentioned that. It appears the VORs that are fairly close
to the airports have been left alone while those that are further away have
been changed. The cutoff appears to be five miles.



Perhaps the relatively recent K prefix for lower 48 airports has
rendered the changes unnecessary.


There's nothing recent about that K.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

But my point is, what is the compelling reason to change now?


Does there have to be a compelling reason? Criteria for identifiers have
been established, many identifiers are being changed because they don't fit
the criteria. I think that's all there is to it.


Some non collocated VORs have had their ID changed from the
same as the nearby airport (e.g. Williamsport, Pa), some have not
(e.g. Manchester, Nh; Pottstown, Pa).


Yes, I believe I mentioned that. It appears the VORs that are fairly close
to the airports have been left alone while those that are further away have
been changed. The cutoff appears to be five miles.

I looked at a number of airports that have common identifiers with VORs, or did
in the past and compared whether the VOR had its identifier changed or not. I
couldn't find any definate criteria, some VORs had been changed that are closer
to airports than VORs that had not been changed. Curiously, I couldn't find
where the replacement VOR identifiers came from; they must have been randomly
generated.

Airport / VOR distance
KMHT / MHT VOR 4.8 mi not changed
KABE / FJC VOR 4.5 mi changed
KAVP / LVZ VOR 4.2 mi changed (high terrain)
KLNS / LRP VOR 0.0 mi changed ON FIELD
KLEB / LEB VOR 5.0 mi not changed (high terrain)
KMPV / MPV VOR 8.6 mi not changed (Montpelier, VT)
KROA / ROA VOR 4.7 mi
[KROA also has ODR VOR on field!]
KAGC / AGC VOR 6.8 mi not changed
KHLG / HLG VOR 6.2 mi not changed
KTCL / LDK VOR 4.4 mi ID *and* name changed 9/2003
"The fact that the VORTAC and the airport are not
co-located has led to confusion among users. To
eliminate this confusion, the Tuscaloosa VORTAC will
be renamed ``Crimson VORTAC,'' and will be assigned a
new location identifier ``LDK.''" (lack of low level
radar coverage a factor) Docket No. 02-ASO-24
KMGM / MGM VOR 6.0 mi not changed
KCHA / GQO VOR 5.1 mi ID *and* name changed
Chattanooga VOR changed to Choo Choo to avoid confusion



Perhaps the relatively recent K prefix for lower 48 airports has
rendered the changes unnecessary.


There's nothing recent about that K.

I don't remember it being used before the mid 90s or so. When did the ICAO K
prefix begin to appear in front of FAA continental USA 3 letter ID's?

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

I don't remember it being used before the mid 90s or so. When
did the ICAO K prefix begin to appear in front of FAA
continental USA 3 letter ID's?


I don't know when that began, but I suspect it was about the time
international air travel began to flourish after WWII. I started work at
Chicago ARTCC in 1983, they were in use by all international flights then.
You probably only became familiar with them when GPS manufacturers began
using them to distinguish between airports and navaids.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

I don't remember it being used before the mid 90s or so. When
did the ICAO K prefix begin to appear in front of FAA
continental USA 3 letter ID's?


I don't know when that began, but I suspect it was about the time
international air travel began to flourish after WWII. I started work at
Chicago ARTCC in 1983, they were in use by all international flights then.
You probably only became familiar with them when GPS manufacturers began
using them to distinguish between airports and navaids.

Interesting. When seminars discussing the then-new METAR and TAF reports
(that replaced the SA and FT wx reports) were popping up in 1995 and 1996, I
remember hearing about the "new" K prefix.

The K is beneficial to remove ambiguities in databases though I didn't have a
GPS unit back then