The price of gas

Peter Gottlieb opined

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with
the
regs were amortized.


If refining is so incredibly expensive here then why isn't the refining
being done where it is cheaper and the final product shipped here for
consumption?

WE are importing refined products from Europe and Venezuala. 10 or 20%, IIRC.
But it is an inflexible pipeline, and some overseas refineries are not willing
to upgrade in order to produce the latest EPA mandated concoctions.

The logical conclusion is that refining here, with all the regulations, is
still economically favorable as compared to refining elsewhere.




-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
Peter Gottlieb opined

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be
built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs
were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with
the
regs were amortized.


If refining is so incredibly expensive here then why isn't the refining
being done where it is cheaper and the final product shipped here for
consumption?

WE are importing refined products from Europe and Venezuala. 10 or 20%,
IIRC.
But it is an inflexible pipeline, and some overseas refineries are not
willing
to upgrade in order to produce the latest EPA mandated concoctions.

The logical conclusion is that refining here, with all the regulations,
is
still economically favorable as compared to refining elsewhere.

The conclusion might be at the end of your previous paragraph.

I've heard that US refineries are operating at damn near 100% of ALLOWED
capacity. Can anyone verify that?

Tom Sixkiller opined

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
Peter Gottlieb opined

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be
built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs
were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with
the
regs were amortized.


If refining is so incredibly expensive here then why isn't the refining
being done where it is cheaper and the final product shipped here for
consumption?

WE are importing refined products from Europe and Venezuala. 10 or 20%,
IIRC.
But it is an inflexible pipeline, and some overseas refineries are not
willing
to upgrade in order to produce the latest EPA mandated concoctions.

The logical conclusion is that refining here, with all the regulations,
is
still economically favorable as compared to refining elsewhere.

The conclusion might be at the end of your previous paragraph.

I've heard that US refineries are operating at damn near 100% of ALLOWED
capacity. Can anyone verify that?


It is 90%+ of installed capacity. Which leaves very little room for error.

In 1981, according to the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association,
321 refineries pumped out 18.6 million barrels a day of gasoline. Today
only 149 refineries, run by 60 companies in 33 different states, pump out
16.8 million barrels of gasoline daily - almost 2 million barrels a day
less. They are operating at 93 percent of capacity, well above the
industrial average, with little time left for maintenance and upgrades.

Tom Bray, Washington Times


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
I've heard that US refineries are operating at damn near 100% of ALLOWED
capacity. Can anyone verify that?


It is 90%+ of installed capacity. Which leaves very little room for error.

In 1981, according to the National Petrochemical and Refiners
Association,
321 refineries pumped out 18.6 million barrels a day of gasoline. Today
only 149 refineries, run by 60 companies in 33 different states, pump
out
16.8 million barrels of gasoline daily - almost 2 million barrels a day
less. They are operating at 93 percent of capacity, well above the
industrial average, with little time left for maintenance and upgrades.

Tom Bray, Washington Times

Sounds "damn near" to me.

What about drillings? I recall (my memory started to go longggg before I hit
50) that the only new drillings are off shore, and that is so restricted by
EPA (and other alphabet soup) that it has to be an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD
reading before they spend the money. Any idea of the ratio of cost of
drilling to cost of government paperwork and bureaucratic BS? :~)

As of Friday there were 1056 rigs drilling onshore in the US and 95 drilling
offshore.

Mike
MU-2



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...
"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
I've heard that US refineries are operating at damn near 100% of
ALLOWED
capacity. Can anyone verify that?


It is 90%+ of installed capacity. Which leaves very little room for
error.

In 1981, according to the National Petrochemical and Refiners
Association,
321 refineries pumped out 18.6 million barrels a day of gasoline.
Today
only 149 refineries, run by 60 companies in 33 different states, pump
out
16.8 million barrels of gasoline daily - almost 2 million barrels a
day
less. They are operating at 93 percent of capacity, well above the
industrial average, with little time left for maintenance and
upgrades.

Tom Bray, Washington Times

Sounds "damn near" to me.

What about drillings? I recall (my memory started to go longggg before I
hit
50) that the only new drillings are off shore, and that is so restricted
by
EPA (and other alphabet soup) that it has to be an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD
reading before they spend the money. Any idea of the ratio of cost of
drilling to cost of government paperwork and bureaucratic BS? :~)

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

What about drillings? I recall (my memory started to go longggg before I
hit
50) that the only new drillings are off shore, and that is so restricted
by
EPA (and other alphabet soup) that it has to be an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD
reading before they spend the money. Any idea of the ratio of cost of
drilling to cost of government paperwork and bureaucratic BS? :~)


Offshore rigs are extremely expensive to build and operate. This surely has
an effect on how many are constructed.

Sure they are regulated. The damage potential to the environment from them
is large and besides the environment itself, entire local economies can be
ruined for long periods of time when an accident occurs.

Perhaps it would be a good first step if the oil companies would step up to
the plate and offer to fully compensate other parties for all damage that
occurs due to their operations, including reduction in property values.

I am not against oil companies and progress but I do think that every
company must take responsibility for their actions and effects and the costs
of their operations on others. Only when all externalities are internalized
can the most efficient economic choices be made.