Almost saw someone crash

I would argue the point that an individual who flies VFR in IMC is a
skillful pilot. Most pilots would suggest that flying in IMC and being lost
in a thunderstorm do not demonstrate good judgment or skill.

She stated that it was so difficult to control the plane that she couldn't
take her hands off the yoke to hit the "nearest" button on her GPS to find
the closest airport. I do not think this demonstrates a high level of
proficiency or judgment.

I spoke with our mechanic today- the plane had tree bark and leaves embedded
in the wingtip and leading edge. This to me would suggest that at some point
in time she had hit a tree.

These are the facts of the post- if you do not believe that these events
brought this individual close to killing herself so be it.

"Viperdoc" wrote in message

I would argue the point that an individual who flies VFR in IMC is a
skillful pilot. Most pilots would suggest that flying in IMC and being
lost
in a thunderstorm do not demonstrate good judgment or skill.

She stated that it was so difficult to control the plane that she couldn't
take her hands off the yoke to hit the "nearest" button on her GPS to find
the closest airport. I do not think this demonstrates a high level of
proficiency or judgment.


I repeat, yet again, that I have never suggested this woman displayed good
judgement. You seem to want to mix judgement and skill, implying that
because this woman displayed poor judgement, she was unskilled. To be
objective regarding aviation, you have to learn to recognize the difference
between judgement and skill. The two are necessary and complimentary in a
good aviator, but are in no way inextricably mixed. I have known pilots of
remarkable skill and astoundingly poor judgement. Their poor judgement,
although lamentable, never reduced their ability to smoothly and accurately
place their craft exactly where they wanted it in time and space. I have
also known people of impressive intellectual judgement without the skills to
push a wheelbarrow. (Fortunately, none of the latter were pilots.)


I spoke with our mechanic today- the plane had tree bark and leaves
embedded
in the wingtip and leading edge. This to me would suggest that at some
point
in time she had hit a tree.

Exactly right -- at some point in time she hit some branches.

These are the facts of the post- if you do not believe that these events
brought this individual close to killing herself so be it.

Well, one fact and two opinions. In any event, she may have been close.
Possibly close. Maybe even probably close. But neither you nor I know that
as fact.

In article , Viperdoc wrote:
I would argue the point that an individual who flies VFR in IMC is a
skillful pilot. Most pilots would suggest that flying in IMC and being lost
in a thunderstorm do not demonstrate good judgment or skill.

Skill and judgement are different things. I've known pilots with a high
level of physical skill sometimes display an appalling lack of good
judgement.

If you fly often enough, sometime you (the generic you, as in y'all in
the newsgroup, not the original poster) may have a serious lapse of
judgement which you ask yourself sometime after the fact, "Why did I do
THAT!?" and which you'd be critical of someone else if you'd see them do
it. Sometimes we do have sudden losses of judgement.

It's common practise at many airports to be reading through something
like NTSB Reporter, or a flying mag with some coverage of aviation
accidents with other pilots, and all be commenting how "We'd never do
THAT". Then some months/years later do precisely that. I know pilots who
generally always show good jugement and skill once load a plane aft of
the CofG envelope and have a bloody good scare from it. I know pilots
who otherwise show good judgement to paint themselves into a corner with
the weather. I know pilots who otherwise show good judgement
accidentally run a fuel tank dry because they neglected a normal
downwind check. You can't just think "I normally display good judgement,
therefore I'll never be in the NTSB reports because of X", because one
day your human fallibility will get you. You have to ALWAYS be on your
guard for your *own* judgement failings because eventually, you'll make
a stupid/bad judgement call. Every pilot I know who has 1000 hours or
more has made at least one self-inflicted bad-judgement error. Most have
lived to tell the tale with no bent metal - but before they made that
error, they'd never have believed it'd be them who made that dumb,
stupid mistake. Every airport is teeming with "I learned about flying
from that" stories that people have acquired from their own lack of
judgement one day, even if they are the person who normally displays
excellent airmanship.

None of us are immune from making stupid mistakes, even grossly stupid
ones that we though we'd never make because we are "better than that" -
most of the time we are, but sudden loss of judgement happens, and
occasionally you need that superior skill to get yourself out of a
stupid position you put yourself in in the first place.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"