Almost saw someone crash

In article 5SGtc.58$3x.29@attbi_s54, Jay Honeck wrote:
*Buying*, on the other hand, is sooo expensive up-front -- way more
expensive then renting -- but then you tend to forget all about it after the
initial pain.

When you own the economics change hugely. All the costs are incremental
in renting, where as only a small fraction of the cost is incremental
when you own. I found during the ownership of the C140, most of the
costs - including many maintenance costs - were fixed and you paid them
whether you flew 10 hours a year or 300 hours a year. The vast majority
of the annual inspection was the actual bits that had to be done whether
you flew the plane or not. The hangar fees still had to be paid, the
insurance still had to be paid etc.

That meant that flying an additional hour was very cheap, mainly fuel, a
little for oil, and a little for maintenance reserve. Instead of
thinking 'It's going to cost $BIGNUM to fly another hour' as you do with
a rental, it was 'I'm going to have to pay $BIGNUM per year anyway, and
it only costs $SMALLNUM to fly an additional hour. Let's go flying.' I
flew three times as many hours as an owner compared to renting.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article 5SGtc.58$3x.29@attbi_s54, Jay Honeck wrote:
Either way you cut it, if you took the amount you'd put into buying a new
2004 Toyota, you could buy a really nice little Cessna 150 and fly the pants
off it

.... especially when you consider the depreciation on that Toyota, which
you just don't have with a C150 of the same price.

In article , Martin Hotze wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Everything is relative. Compared to golfing in Scotland, or owning a 42
foot yacht, flying is DIRT cheap. Compared to bowling, it's pretty spendy.


what do you know about the costs of golfing in Scotland?

If you live 4,000 miles away, it's quite expensive to stay in a hotel,
airfares etc. to go golfing in Scotland, especially on a frequent basis.

Even for me, flying is cheaper than regular golfing holidays in
Scotland. Good job I don't play golf really!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Good for you, Jay! I get so tired of hearing folks whine about my
airplanes
when they drive up in their $40,000 SUVs whose insurance is more each year
than our two taildraggers combined. I don't work and my husband doesn't
make
a six figure salary, but we manage to fly about 300 hours a year together.

I wish there was a better way to communicate this fact.

One main impediment is that pilots seem to *want* everyone to think that
they are rich, powerful, exclusive fly-boys. I suppose this is only human
nature, but it really is counter-productive when we're trying to keep a
dying breed alive.

G.A. will not survive without young people getting involved. All you have
to do is look at the pictures from Pinckneyville (and Oshkosh, and Sun N
Fun) to see a whole lot of gray (and, ahem, balding) heads in the photos.
Where are the young folks?

Spread the Word -- flying is cheap! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article TLrtc.8088$n_6.4236@attbi_s53,
I said "compared to many recreational activities, flying is cheap" -- which
is a whole different thing than saying "flying is cheap."

Everything is relative. Compared to golfing in Scotland, or owning a 42
foot yacht, flying is DIRT cheap. Compared to bowling, it's pretty spendy.

I'm a full time student, and for me flying is not cheap. In fact I took
out student loans to get my PPL. A lot of guys my age (29) are getting
married and having kids. If you make ~$25-35k/yr and have a family,
flying is really sort of out of the question for most people.
I think that flying is more affordable than most people think, but
clearly running a FBO or aviation school is difficult because it's based
on ones discretionary income. How to make a small fortune in aviation and
all that
Here in Seattle renting is pretty price. Local clubs charge as much as
$100/hr for a C152. Plus housing isn't cheap so that's less money for
flying. etc. etc.
Most people can not by a 42ft yacht either thou

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:eqVtc.16324$n_6.1632@attbi_s53...

Spread the Word -- flying is cheap! :-)

Depends where you are. Here it is $270 a month just for tie down.

The entry fee is steep. I heard the average lately around here is 100 TT to
a private. I believe the least expensive 172 is $105 an hour (plus 8.75%
tax) and the instructors are $45 an hour (too bad they don't get most of
that). Plus the time involvement, rescheduling incessantly for poor
weather, and unavailability of planes (the $130 an hour ones are more
available).

Around here is *not* the ideal place to learn to fly.

Here in Seattle renting is pretty price. Local clubs charge as much as
$100/hr for a C152.

$100 per hour for a clapped out old 152?

Good God, man, you can BUY a 152 for about $150 per MONTH, with a couple of
grand down.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:eqVtc.16324$n_6.1632@attbi_s53...

G.A. will not survive without young people getting involved. All you
have
to do is look at the pictures from Pinckneyville (and Oshkosh, and Sun N
Fun) to see a whole lot of gray (and, ahem, balding) heads in the photos.
Where are the young folks?

Probably working two jobs to pay the Social Security benefits of those old
gray, balding types...

Jay Honeck wrote:

Where are the young folks?

They've figured out that boats are cheaper, you can throw parties on them, and you
can attract bikini-clad young ladies. For what a C-152 costs, you can buy one big
enough to sleep on. If nothing else, you can go fishing. Best of all, the FAA is not
involved.

A much better deal if you're single and in your 20s. Or maybe if you're just single.
:-)

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

They've figured out that boats are cheaper, you can throw parties on them, and you
can attract bikini-clad young ladies. For what a C-152 costs, you can buy one big
enough to sleep on. If nothing else, you can go fishing. Best of all, the FAA is not
involved.

A much better deal if you're single and in your 20s. Or maybe if you're just single.
:-)

If you live in the south, maybe. If you live in the northern states or
Canada, a boat spends most of the year in drydock or the driveway.


All the best,


David