Student Pilot lands short of runway

Notice the top post...

This whole debate reminds me of the ****wit who years ago told me my long
email was a waste of precious net bandwidth, and merited some form of
corporal punishment. There's nothing like righteous indignation on trivial
matters to make one wonder how some people's brains actually work.

USENET is free. It's a nice way to share thoughts on topics of common
interest. If you don't like the way a particular post looks, DON"T READ
IT!!!

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:l4ouc.19595$eY2.15166@attbi_s02...
Ok. I'm going to break my promise to myself again because I'm just
overwhelmingly curious about this.

I've stated a reason why top posting is a personal preference of mine. But
the argument against top posting seems to be primarily one of etiquette-or
netiquette. To me this is like saying that it's not proper etiquette to
fly
a high wing plane (or low wing depending on what you fly). I read them
all-top or bottom. I just prefer top. I prefer a high wing because I like
to
look down and I like to take pictures. I have absolutely nothing against
people who fly low wings. I'm sure they have their reasons for that
particular preference. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I
prefer top posting because I like to go from message to message with the
arrow keys rather than the mouse when I can. Normal etiquette has to do
with
things like where the forks and knives go in a dinner setting. I can find
them as long as they're somewhere on the table. I don't care where you put
them, but in formal setting there is a "right" side and a "wrong" side,
according to etiquette. Again, I'm not going to stop patronizing a
restaurant because they had the audacity to put the silverware in the
wrong
spots. I can see where the snootier patrons might somehow be offended and
refuse to go there anymore, or complain to the server or manager or
something equally petty. I just don't consider it, or myself, to be that
important. What IS bad netiquette-and I can see the reason why, even
though
I'm guilty of it right now-is posting off topic. Yet, ironically, the one
who started the off topic posting is the one complaining about netiquette.
Also, by implying that top posters are lazy, he's indirectly confirmed
that
top posting is easier.

I also preferred the way I could sort threads with Netscape, but that
software has caused problems with my computer, so I removed it and deal
with
some minor inconveniences in OE, but that also seems to somehow be a
violation of etiquette, or just some reason to make me somehow inferior to
those who use other readers.

I don't mean to prolong this thread, but I'm really trying to understand
how
anybody can get their panties in such a bunch over something so trivial
and
so much a matter of personal preference.

And if my plane wasn't getting its annual right now, I wouldn't even be
participating in this NG because of these types of arguments or
debates-both, I guess since some is debate and some is just argumentative.

If you prefer bottom posting, by all means go right ahead. I prefer
sending
and receiving top posts, unless I'm responding to particular pieces of a
post, in which case I post my response below each particular piece. On
most
posts I can rather easily tell what's being responded to, but if there's
any
confusion I know I can scroll down to clear it up.

I also don't mind some people not trimming their posts as I don't always
get
the original post if I come in late. Then I look for a post that hasn't
been
snipped to get caught up. And they certainly don't seem to take up any
more
time or space than snipped posts. I wouldn't want them all like that, but
I
find a few to be helpful. Yet that is almost a capital crime to some
folks.

Is there an Emily Post of the internet? If so, does she have a rationale
for
all the rules of netiquette? Are some arbitrary? Traditional? Practical?

I don't really NEED to know. Just trying to make sense of something that
seems to me to be pure nonsense coming from otherwise very sensible
people.

mike regish



"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 30 May 2004 00:31:14 GMT, wrote:

I HATE scrolling down to read the latest...

it is a free world.
do whatever you want but don't start crying when top posters are not
read
by bottom posters (and vice versa).
you have the right to post, but nobody has the duty to read the
postings.

"Windecks" wrote in message
om...
[...]
USENET is free.

If you think Usenet, or the associated bandwidth and storage costs, is free,
you are a "****wit" yourself.

OK. Maybe not "free", but included in the price.

mike regish

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Windecks" wrote in message
om...
[...]
USENET is free.

If you think Usenet, or the associated bandwidth and storage costs, is
free,
you are a "****wit" yourself.

On Fri, 28 May 2004 at 21:16:29 in message
, Greg Esres
wrote:
No one that cares about Usenet etiquette agrees with you.

I hate bottom posting, at least when the person includes the entire
previous post. That makes me have to scroll down.

I hate it when, either with top or bottom posting, people include
entire messages with only small comments and sometimes those messages
are 4 or more deep. That is in newsgroups of course. Batting backwards
and forwards to a support site is quite different IMHO,

--
David CL Francis

On Sat, 29 May 2004 at 14:45:02 in message
Ol1uc.20109$n_6.11921@attbi_s53, mike regish
wrote:

I actually DISLIKE bottom posting. It's a PIA to have to scroll down every
message.

mike regish

Since your message stands by itself and merely states your opinion and
reason then there was no need to include any part of the previous
message at all. It that case the distinction between top and bottom
would not exist. :-)
--
David CL Francis

On Sat, 29 May 2004 at 17:16:14 in message
, Philip Sondericker
wrote:

Previously quoted material may occasionally be needed for context (see above
for example). As for the signature thing, this is the first time I've ever
heard it mentioned by anyone, but I suppose it's no big deal for me to avoid
quoting them.

If the message is correctly constructed with hyphenhyphenspace as
a signature separator then, if you have a newsreader that works as they
are intended to work, the signature will be automatically removed when
you press reply.

You may have one guess as to which system does not work as it should.
The system really needs changing, as adding to the failure rate are many
people who appear to delete what they must assume is a surplus space
after the two hyphens!
--
David CL Francis

On Sat, 29 May 2004 at 23:02:38 in message
9E8uc.15151$4A6.11070@attbi_s52, mike regish
wrote:

P.S. I had to unnecessarily scroll to the bottom to read your reply. So some
even properly trimmed posts require scrolling with bottom posters.

But the information on who you were replying to was below your statement
above.

Top posting can be similar to writing a letter that includes a statement
like, 'we wish to comment on your statement that you will somewhere
below this one.'

Both methods are made much worse by a failure to crop.
--
David CL Francis

On Sun, 30 May 2004 at 00:31:14 in message
,
wrote:

Remember when we used paper files? The MOST RECENT info was
placed on top, and when you file e-mail, the MOST RECENT is at the
top... newspapers in the library, MOST RECENT on top...invoices?
same.....calendars ? ...same....

And now we are supposed to place our MOST RECENT "news"
all the way on the BOTTOM????

Business correspondence and exchanges with someone who is providing
support are quite different from Usenet. In the first two it can be
quite reasonable to include previous correspondence.

But surely Usenet is a written version of a verbal discussion? It is
fast and the response can be quick. If I was talking to you I would not
comment on things before you said them - oh I don't know perhaps I
would! :-)
--
David CL Francis

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:36:33 GMT, mike regish wrote:

Ok. I'm going to break my promise to myself again because I'm just
overwhelmingly curious about this.

well, I had to scroll down and read what and whom you are referring to.
then I scrolled back up to read your post.

I've stated a reason why top posting is a personal preference of mine. But

well, live with it. it is ok for me. but it is also ok for me to adjust the
score. well, I am not a factor here, but you get the idea.

the argument against top posting seems to be primarily one of etiquette-or
netiquette. To me this is like saying that it's not proper etiquette to fly

nah. it is how things are read. from top the way down to the end.

(...)
I also preferred the way I could sort threads with Netscape, but that
software has caused problems with my computer, so I removed it and deal with
some minor inconveniences in OE, but that also seems to somehow be a
violation of etiquette, or just some reason to make me somehow inferior to
those who use other readers.

everybody gets what he deserves.

(...)
I also don't mind some people not trimming their posts as I don't always get
the original post if I come in late. Then I look for a post that hasn't been

heck. don't you think that pictures would be nice to be attached to
postings? it would explain so much.
where is the border? what is ok and what not?

Is there an Emily Post of the internet? If so, does she have a rationale for
all the rules of netiquette? Are some arbitrary? Traditional? Practical?

most of the rules (netiquette for the net, etiquette for real life) come
out of practice.

I don't really NEED to know. Just trying to make sense of something that
seems to me to be pure nonsense coming from otherwise very sensible people.

mike regish

( ... fullquote snipped ....)

#m

--
Martin!!! Maaaaartiiiin!!! Can you please flame this guy for me?
'HECTOP' in rec.aviation.piloting

On Sun, 30 May 2004 17:58:42 GMT, mike regish wrote:

OK. Maybe not "free", but included in the price.


a good one.
do you know how many ISPs stopped providing usenet?
many ISPs have newsservers because there are people working in the IT
department who care.

mike regish


#m


[...]
USENET is free.

If you think Usenet, or the associated bandwidth and storage costs, is
free,
you are a "****wit" yourself.




--
Martin!!! Maaaaartiiiin!!! Can you please flame this guy for me?
'HECTOP' in rec.aviation.piloting