Standard rate turn in Boeing 757?

In a previous article, (Garyurbach) said:
Can anybody here tall me what the standard rate of turn is in a 757? Is it the
same as small palnes, i.ei, is it universal at 360 degrees in 2 minutes?

The big guys don't do standard rate turns, because that would involve too
high a bank angle. Instead they just do 30 degree banks.

As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80"). If you don't care if the plane is
usable again after the maneuver, I'm sure you could do a lot more abrupt
maneuvers than that.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The average banker could benefit tremendously from a good kick to
the head at precisely-timed intervals
-- Dan Holdsworth

In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80"). If you don't care if the plane is
usable again after the maneuver, I'm sure you could do a lot more abrupt
maneuvers than that.

Not necessarily... +1-G is +1-G.
The airplane doesn't know what attitude it's in as long as the proper
g-loading is maintained throughout the maneuver. The only variable is
the pilot's level of skill.

While +1 G = +1 G, nobody said to limit to 1G. A level turn at 60 degrees
of bank requires a constant +2 G. Bank in excess of 60 degrees requires
more G to maintain level flight. As Paul indicated, if the wings will stay
on and you don't care if the plane is flyable afterwards you can make pretty
exciting turns. The rate of turn for any given bank angle in level flight
(coordinated) is dependant on your TAS. In the Hustler, at mach 2, any
autopilot turn, using the navigator's input for bomb run heading, used 60
degrees of bank. At 1,200 plus TAS even 60 degrees of bank doesn't turn you
real fast. With anything less than 60 degrees of bank a misaligned target
could displace faster than you could turn.

--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80"). If you don't care if the plane is
usable again after the maneuver, I'm sure you could do a lot more abrupt
maneuvers than that.

Not necessarily... +1-G is +1-G.
The airplane doesn't know what attitude it's in as long as the proper
g-loading is maintained throughout the maneuver. The only variable is
the pilot's level of skill.

EDR wrote in message ...
In article , Paul Tomblin
wrote:

As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80"). If you don't care if the plane is
usable again after the maneuver, I'm sure you could do a lot more abrupt
maneuvers than that.

Not necessarily... +1-G is +1-G.
The airplane doesn't know what attitude it's in as long as the proper
g-loading is maintained throughout the maneuver. The only variable is
the pilot's level of skill.

But that's just the cabin. The wing tips receive much higher G forces
in a roll. It depends how fast the roll is.

-Robert

As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80").

Actually, an aileron roll, Paul. I know his book, ghost written by
another, says barrel roll, but the tape shows it's an aileron roll.

Among non-fliers, all rolls are "barrel rolls," just as all loops are
"loop-de-loops" and among Southerners, all Northerners are
"Damnyankees."

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote:

... and among Southerners, all Northerners are "Damnyankees."

No, no, no! Yankees come South on vacation. Damn Yankees come South and stay!

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
As for what they're capable of, remember Tex Johnson(sp?) barrel rolled
the 707 prototype (the "Dash-80").

Actually, an aileron roll, Paul. I know his book, ghost written by
another, says barrel roll, but the tape shows it's an aileron roll.

Among non-fliers, all rolls are "barrel rolls," just as all loops are
"loop-de-loops" and among Southerners, all Northerners are
"Damnyankees."

vince norris

Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23 continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll. He dove, he
climbed and he did a constant "speed" roll about a point which is close to
the definition of a barrel roll as I can get without a book in front of me.
An aileron roll is a roll about the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. He
did not do a 360 roll around the longitudinal axis.

Regards,

JB

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23
continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over
Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll.

All those times you watched the tape, you never figured out it's Lake
Washington?



Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...
Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous
times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls (23
continuous
ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707 prototype that day over
Lake
Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it was a barrel roll.

All those times you watched the tape, you never figured out it's Lake
Washington?



Pete

Sigh,

JB

"Jim Baker" wrote

Vince...everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've seen that tape
numerous times and I've done and taught several hundred aileron rolls
(23 continuous ones once in a T-38) and barrel rolls. The 707
prototype that day over Lake Seattle did not do an aileron roll, it
was a barrel roll. He dove, he climbed and he did a constant "speed"
roll about a point which is close to the definition of a barrel roll
as I can get without a book in front of me. An aileron roll is a roll
about the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. He did not do a 360 roll
around the longitudinal axis.


Vince has it right. You must have missed last year's "barrel-roll
discussion", a portion of which is quoted from William Kershner's
book "The Flight Instructor's Manual". Do a newsgroup Google search
for barrel roll and you will find the entire debate between "Big John"
and myself.

"How-
You might use the following explanation, or develop your own:
(1) Make sure the area is clear, then pick a reference on
the horizon off the wing tip as in the wingover and lazy eight.
(2) Set the throttle to low cruise rpm and ease the nose over to pick-
up about 10 K more than used for the wingover or set up the
airspeed used for a loop, whichever is higher. Power adjustment
should not be necessary during the maneuver. You might have
some of your sharper trainees apply full power as the airplane
approaches inverted and then remind them to throttle back as the
airspeed picks up in the last part of the maneuver.
(3) Smoothly pull the nose up and start a coordinated climbing turn
(note that it will have to be at a much faster rate than was used
for the wingover) toward the reference point. (Assume that at first
the roll will be to the left.)
(4) When the nose is 45° from the original heading, it should be at its
highest pitch attitude and the left bank should be vertical.
(5) When the nose is at 90° from the original heading, you should be
looking directly at the reference point that was originally off the
wing tipfrom a completely inverted position (momentarily).
(6) When the airplane heading is again 45° from the original, the bank
is vertical but you will be in a right bank as far as the ground is
concerned; that is, the right wing is pointing straight down at this
instant of roll. The nose will be at its lowest pitch attitude at
this point.
(7) The roll is continued to wings-level flight as the nose is raised
back to the cruise attitude."

Note that half-way through the maneuver, the nose of the airplane
is 90 degrees to original heading at the same time that the airplane
is inverted.

Bob Moore