what would you do?

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
It shouldn't matter Who is being reported. How do you know this
person has done something worth reporting? Because of a post on the
internet?

No one is proposing reporting a pilot solely on the basis of what they've
read on this newsgroup. The only person to whom it's being suggested that
the pilot be reported is the person who actually observed the actions.

If that person cannot make a final determination as to whether to report the
person, who can? All we are saying is that if the events transpired as
described, that's a reportable offense. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you could quote some
posts that led you to it. It sure seems like you pulled that conclusion out
of your ass, given the utter lack of supporting statements within this
thread to justify it.

Pete

Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the way it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA (you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA (you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Generally speaking, "keep an eye on her". I have no idea what the FAA
actually would do, or how they "keep an eye on" someone.

I wouldn't expect them to actually write a violation on the basis on that
single report, but they might contact the pilot to talk to her. Of course,
if she incriminates herself in the process, that's a different matter.
Knowing the FAA, if the pilot actually incriminated herself while talking to
the FAA, I'd expect them to throw whatever book at her they have.

If this were the fiftieth report (for example) of bad behavior on her part
that the FSDO received, I'd expect them to start *some* sort of proceedings,
if only a review (what do they call it? 409? I don't remember).

Pete

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA (you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Oooh. Me me me!!! :

Assuming there wasn't some huge bureaucratic procedure, and I could just
pick up the phone and begin an investigation, I'd let the pilot know she had
been reported and ask her a few basic questions: What is her opinion of
what happened, how current is her ticket, last flight review, logged hours,
how often she flies, were there circumstances that caused her urgency, etc.
Not adversarial, just an attempt to get an idea of the person who has been
reported and the full details of the situation. That might, as a side
effect, be enough to make her aware of her activity.

If she balked or gave unsatisfactory information, I'd contact the owner of
the aircraft and let that person know that his/her aircraft might
potentially be involved in an FAA investigation, and why. Would have had to
have gotten that information anyway to find out who was PIC of the reported
aircraft, but I wouldn't rat out the pilot during that process.

I -might- ask to review her logbook and then advise her of what she did
wrong, the problems it might cause, etc. If the FAA never heard another
report about her flying again, it shouldn't be a problem to anybody at all,
but if further activity was reported the matter would have to be escalated.

Would that be satisfactory?

-c

Can you spell L - A - W - Y - E - R?

Nobody in their right mind would answer questions like that for someone who
just called them up on the phone, and if someone from the FAA or LEA showed
up at the door with credentials the pilot wouldn't talk to them without a
lawyer present.

It would be nice if we could still resolve situations like this with a phone
call, but that went out the door when the 20th century came in.



"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the
way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA
(you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Oooh. Me me me!!! :

Assuming there wasn't some huge bureaucratic procedure, and I could just
pick up the phone and begin an investigation, I'd let the pilot know she
had
been reported and ask her a few basic questions: What is her opinion of
what happened, how current is her ticket, last flight review, logged
hours,
how often she flies, were there circumstances that caused her urgency,
etc.
Not adversarial, just an attempt to get an idea of the person who has been
reported and the full details of the situation. That might, as a side
effect, be enough to make her aware of her activity.

If she balked or gave unsatisfactory information, I'd contact the owner of
the aircraft and let that person know that his/her aircraft might
potentially be involved in an FAA investigation, and why. Would have had
to
have gotten that information anyway to find out who was PIC of the
reported
aircraft, but I wouldn't rat out the pilot during that process.

I -might- ask to review her logbook and then advise her of what she did
wrong, the problems it might cause, etc. If the FAA never heard another
report about her flying again, it shouldn't be a problem to anybody at
all,
but if further activity was reported the matter would have to be
escalated.

Would that be satisfactory?

-c

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the
way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA
(you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Oooh. Me me me!!! :

Assuming there wasn't some huge bureaucratic procedure, and I could just
pick up the phone and begin an investigation, I'd let the pilot know she
had
been reported and ask her a few basic questions: What is her opinion of
what happened, how current is her ticket, last flight review, logged
hours,
how often she flies, were there circumstances that caused her urgency,
etc.
Not adversarial, just an attempt to get an idea of the person who has been
reported and the full details of the situation. That might, as a side
effect, be enough to make her aware of her activity.

If she balked or gave unsatisfactory information, I'd contact the owner of
the aircraft and let that person know that his/her aircraft might
potentially be involved in an FAA investigation, and why. Would have had
to
have gotten that information anyway to find out who was PIC of the
reported
aircraft, but I wouldn't rat out the pilot during that process.

I -might- ask to review her logbook and then advise her of what she did
wrong, the problems it might cause, etc. If the FAA never heard another
report about her flying again, it shouldn't be a problem to anybody at
all,
but if further activity was reported the matter would have to be
escalated.

Would that be satisfactory?

-c

Any sane person would hang up on you within 10 microseconds. Hand over log
books to a stranger playing pattern cop.....oh, sure.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:45:34 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
It shouldn't matter Who is being reported. How do you know this
person has done something worth reporting? Because of a post on the
internet?

No one is proposing reporting a pilot solely on the basis of what they've
read on this newsgroup. The only person to whom it's being suggested that
the pilot be reported is the person who actually observed the actions.

If that person cannot make a final determination as to whether to report the
person, who can? All we are saying is that if the events transpired as
described, that's a reportable offense. Nothing more, nothing less.
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions. When strong opinions are shared from people he may trust
those opinions weigh more heavily into the equation than random
comments. If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.


It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you could quote some
posts that led you to it. It sure seems like you pulled that conclusion out
of your ass, given the utter lack of supporting statements within this
thread to justify it.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds. This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time. I don't live for usenet (although I use it regularly)
so I'm not going to research history for the sake of sharing an
opinion. It wouldn't be time well spent.

Don't take it so personally.

z

True but calling the FSDO is just beginning a process of reviewing whether
the pilot in question is qualified to be flying or needs more training.
Based on the information presented, I think a review is warranted. Just my
humble opinion.

Mike
MU-2

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:45:34 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
It shouldn't matter Who is being reported. How do you know this
person has done something worth reporting? Because of a post on the
internet?

No one is proposing reporting a pilot solely on the basis of what they've
read on this newsgroup. The only person to whom it's being suggested that
the pilot be reported is the person who actually observed the actions.

If that person cannot make a final determination as to whether to report
the
person, who can? All we are saying is that if the events transpired as
described, that's a reportable offense. Nothing more, nothing less.
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions. When strong opinions are shared from people he may trust
those opinions weigh more heavily into the equation than random
comments. If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.


It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you could quote
some
posts that led you to it. It sure seems like you pulled that conclusion
out
of your ass, given the utter lack of supporting statements within this
thread to justify it.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds. This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time. I don't live for usenet (although I use it regularly)
so I'm not going to research history for the sake of sharing an
opinion. It wouldn't be time well spent.

Don't take it so personally.

z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions.

And yet, we are not the ones making the decision. Whatever happened to
personal responsibility? Oh, that's right...there's no such thing anymore.

[...] If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.

If the people making those opinions WERE there, they could take action
themselves, rather than providing insight to someone else who WAS there. By
your logic, no one should ever seek counsel from someone else. That's a
pretty dumb conclusion, IMHO.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds.

Yes, it does, now and then. So?

This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time.

How do you conclude from recommendations that dangerous behavior be reported
to the FAA, that "no one here has ever made a mistake"? The two are
completely unrelated.

Your statement that "no one here has ever made a mistake" did indeed come
right out of your ass. It's a completely unjustified conclusion. No one
here ever claimed that they never made a mistake (well, perhaps excepting
one particular trollish controller), nor do comments suggesting a dangerous
pilot be reported imply any such thing.

Pete

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:29:42 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions.

And yet, we are not the ones making the decision. Whatever happened to
personal responsibility? Oh, that's right...there's no such thing anymore.

That's right, the lawyers took that one away from us a long time ago.
I think it started with a hot cup of coffee (maybe even before).

[...] If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.

If the people making those opinions WERE there, they could take action
themselves, rather than providing insight to someone else who WAS there. By
your logic, no one should ever seek counsel from someone else. That's a
pretty dumb conclusion, IMHO.

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman. How in heaven did you get that
from my comment? You definitely seem to be reading into this far more
deeply than the sentence warrants..

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds.

Yes, it does, now and then. So?

So I believe that mentality can do more harm than good when applied
within this forum.

This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time.

How do you conclude from recommendations that dangerous behavior be reported
to the FAA, that "no one here has ever made a mistake"? The two are
completely unrelated.

Your statement that "no one here has ever made a mistake" did indeed come
right out of your ass. It's a completely unjustified conclusion. No one
here ever claimed that they never made a mistake (well, perhaps excepting
one particular trollish controller), nor do comments suggesting a dangerous
pilot be reported imply any such thing.

Pete

I never said "no one here has ever made a mistake." You are cropping
my sentences to suit your own purpose, but I guess that is to be
expected from someone who needs to make personal attacks against
another for voicing his own opinion.

If you'd read my statements in context I think you'll understand (or
maybe not) that the Prosecute now ask questions later mentality that
seemed to be prevalent in this and other threads gives the appearance
that only the best pilot's frequent these groups. While I'd like to
believe that about myself, I'd never be that foolish. I know I'm only
as good as my worst day.

z