what would you do?

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:42:39 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:53:15 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

According to the original post, there were quite a few witnesses.

None of whom frequent this group, which still leaves us making a
determination (suggestion) based one one person's point of view.

I didn't know we were expected to make a determination, only a WAG as to
what he should do: report, or not report. I expect $12 a day if I gotta do
Jury Duty.

LOL. We only get $5 where I'm from. You hit my point exactly. One
man's wild ass guess can be interpreted by another as an appropriate
course of action. My goal was to merely temper the Hang 'em High
routine that appeared to be going on. Am I right or wrong? Don't
know, just sharing my opinion.

It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

Not that boneheaded of mistakes.

Are you sure, No One who has Ever posted here has not made One
significant error? Just seems too absolute a statement to me.

We're all still alive, aren't we? Mostly?

As is the individual who's subject in this thread. And I hope we all
stay that way for a long time!

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:29:42 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions.

And yet, we are not the ones making the decision. Whatever happened to
personal responsibility? Oh, that's right...there's no such thing anymore.

That's right, the lawyers took that one away from us a long time ago.
I think it started with a hot cup of coffee (maybe even before).

[...] If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.

If the people making those opinions WERE there, they could take action
themselves, rather than providing insight to someone else who WAS there. By
your logic, no one should ever seek counsel from someone else. That's a
pretty dumb conclusion, IMHO.

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman. How in heaven did you get that
from my comment? You definitely seem to be reading into this far more
deeply than the sentence warrants..

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds.

Yes, it does, now and then. So?

So I believe that mentality can do more harm than good when applied
within this forum.

This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time.

How do you conclude from recommendations that dangerous behavior be reported
to the FAA, that "no one here has ever made a mistake"? The two are
completely unrelated.

Your statement that "no one here has ever made a mistake" did indeed come
right out of your ass. It's a completely unjustified conclusion. No one
here ever claimed that they never made a mistake (well, perhaps excepting
one particular trollish controller), nor do comments suggesting a dangerous
pilot be reported imply any such thing.

Pete

I never said "no one here has ever made a mistake." You are cropping
my sentences to suit your own purpose, but I guess that is to be
expected from someone who needs to make personal attacks against
another for voicing his own opinion.

If you'd read my statements in context I think you'll understand (or
maybe not) that the Prosecute now ask questions later mentality that
seemed to be prevalent in this and other threads gives the appearance
that only the best pilot's frequent these groups. While I'd like to
believe that about myself, I'd never be that foolish. I know I'm only
as good as my worst day.

z

So long as she landed on 14 she flew a left upwind to 14. Doesn't matter
what radio call she used. If she called a left downwind for 32 we all
should know where she is. The original poster was flying the wrong pattern
if he was right upwind for 14 when 14 is a left pattern.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:sXUBc.92880$Sw.18279@attbi_s51...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty
finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern.

Flying a left pattern for a runway designated as right-traffic violates
91.126b or 91.127a.

--Gary

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
[...]
I never said "no one here has ever made a mistake."

You wrote: "It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that
they are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be."

You are cropping my sentences to suit your own purpose, but I guess
that is to be expected from someone who needs to make personal
attacks against another for voicing his own opinion.

What you wrote is in black and white for anyone to read, yet you deny it?
Wow.

As for personal attacks, you're the only one making those around here. You
imply that people claim to not have made a mistake, when no such claim has
been made, and you use that implication to denounce people who write
something you simply don't care for.

If you'd read my statements in context I think you'll understand (or
maybe not) that the Prosecute now ask questions later mentality that
seemed to be prevalent in this and other threads gives the appearance
that only the best pilot's frequent these groups.

And then you make the same implication you deny, in the very post in which
you denied it. Amazing.

Pete

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:29:46 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
[...]
I never said "no one here has ever made a mistake."

You wrote: "It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that
they are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be."

You are cropping my sentences to suit your own purpose, but I guess
that is to be expected from someone who needs to make personal
attacks against another for voicing his own opinion.

What you wrote is in black and white for anyone to read, yet you deny it?
Wow.

As for personal attacks, you're the only one making those around here. You
imply that people claim to not have made a mistake, when no such claim has
been made, and you use that implication to denounce people who write
something you simply don't care for.

If you'd read my statements in context I think you'll understand (or
maybe not) that the Prosecute now ask questions later mentality that
seemed to be prevalent in this and other threads gives the appearance
that only the best pilot's frequent these groups.

And then you make the same implication you deny, in the very post in which
you denied it. Amazing.

Pete

I guess the (or maybe not) holds true for your (lack of)
understanding.

z

"Michael 182" wrote in message

The jerk
was yelling at me that if I couldn't land shorter than that I shouldn't be
landing at "his" airport. I can just picture him "reporting" me, and
having
to deal with a FSDO investigation or some such thing.

Those are good points, Micheal. If I reported her to the FSDO, I'd have the
guts to give my name and number so that I could contribute what I saw if
necessary.

But if I saw a pilot knowingly putting other pilots and aircraft in danger,
I'd definately want to do something to prevent him/her from doing it again,
and cussing her out isn't an option.
-c

"Michael 182" wrote in message

What does "report her" mean? Why should the FSDO care what I say when
I
"report" a fellow pilot?

They are the ones in charge of enforcing the FARs.

Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?

Because other people might have reported her too. If not, at least you made
a best effort instead of shrugging the whole thing off and hoping somebody
doesn't get killed by her irresponsibility next time.

Here's an anecdote. In 1990 or so, a Lake flew under the bridges in
downtown Portland, Oregon in the middle of the day, and the FAA and police
were looking all over for the guy. I saw a Lake that fit the exact
description sitting outside a hangar at TTD, having just landed, that very
day. Didn't report it, although Lake amphibs are pretty rare out here.
Should I have reported it?

-c

"zatatime" wrote in message

I really am amazed at how quickly this group seems to hang people and
almost unanimously declare that someone should be referred to the
authorities when all they really have to go by is one persons opinion.

Well, that's why we're just talking about it here and not calling the FAA,
isn't it?

If I saw it, I would have probably reported it because somebody like me, or
my family, or my CFI or friends who fly, or the offending pilot and her
passengers, might be in grave danger.
Similarly, as an avid boater on the Columbia River, I do not hesitate to
report flagrantly irresponsible activity by other boaters when I see them
put other people in harm's way.

-c

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Michael 182" wrote in message

What does "report her" mean? Why should the FSDO care what I say
when
I
"report" a fellow pilot?

They are the ones in charge of enforcing the FARs.

Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?

Because other people might have reported her too. If not, at least you
made
a best effort instead of shrugging the whole thing off and hoping somebody
doesn't get killed by her irresponsibility next time.

Here's an anecdote. In 1990 or so, a Lake flew under the bridges in
downtown Portland, Oregon in the middle of the day, and the FAA and police
were looking all over for the guy. I saw a Lake that fit the exact
description sitting outside a hangar at TTD, having just landed, that very
day. Didn't report it, although Lake amphibs are pretty rare out here.
Should I have reported it?

Absolutely not. You don't know it was the same Lake. You don't even know it
was a Lake that flew under the bridge (other than someone else's ID, which,
unless it was by a pilot is pretty iffy). You don't know the circumstances
of flying under the bridge, if in fact, that really happened. Maybe he was
landing legitimately and taxiied under the bridge. I have no idea what the
seaplane rules are, do you? And, aside from everything else, I really have
no problem with someone flying under a bridge. I wouldn't do it, but
barnstormers used to do this sort of thing all the time.

Michael




-c

"Teacherjh" wrote in message

Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA (you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Oooh. Me me me!!! :

Assuming there wasn't some huge bureaucratic procedure, and I could just
pick up the phone and begin an investigation, I'd let the pilot know she had
been reported and ask her a few basic questions: What is her opinion of
what happened, how current is her ticket, last flight review, logged hours,
how often she flies, were there circumstances that caused her urgency, etc.
Not adversarial, just an attempt to get an idea of the person who has been
reported and the full details of the situation. That might, as a side
effect, be enough to make her aware of her activity.

If she balked or gave unsatisfactory information, I'd contact the owner of
the aircraft and let that person know that his/her aircraft might
potentially be involved in an FAA investigation, and why. Would have had to
have gotten that information anyway to find out who was PIC of the reported
aircraft, but I wouldn't rat out the pilot during that process.

I -might- ask to review her logbook and then advise her of what she did
wrong, the problems it might cause, etc. If the FAA never heard another
report about her flying again, it shouldn't be a problem to anybody at all,
but if further activity was reported the matter would have to be escalated.

Would that be satisfactory?

-c