My 9th Wedding Anniversary Trip, To Newport, OR Carb Ice & Real Engine Out "Long"

I've always wondered about this suggestion? Here's what I'm thinking: If I
fly along and start getting carb ice, generally, I can apply carb heat and
eventually (hopefully) eliminate the condition. At that point, I am aware
that the conditions are conducive to carb ice and take whatever actions I
deem appropriate. BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

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Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


NW_PILOT wrote:

is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I was taught and have read in several publications that you should always
use full
carb heat if you use it at all.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
[...] BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you are in conditions conducive to carb ice without carb heat, then
there's no way for full carb heat to produce a conditon that is still
conducive to carb ice. Conversely, if you get carb ice with the carb heat
full on, you are flying in some pretty cold temperatures and there was no
need for carb heat in the first place.

In any case, the problem with partial carb heat is that, without a carb temp
gauge, you have no way of knowing that you haven't created conditions
conducive to carb ice when none existed previously, or that you haven't
turned conditions only a little conducive to carb ice into conditions that
are very conducive to carb ice.

Pete

Cecil Chapman wrote:

BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

That's why I asked whether NW had the heat hot when descending (and never
saw an answer, sadly). I've never had a situation where carb-ice formed
despite the heat being on. But that doesn't preclude the possibility (esp.
since I'm in a very different neighborhood).

I've only recently started flying aircraft that have carb-temp gauges. You
can bet I'll be watching those with some curiosity.

- Andrew

If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?

What I meant was that one could be flying into gradually increasing severity
of carb ice potential with the carb heat kept full on. That is, there
wouldn't be any initial warning that conditions were becoming conducive to
carb icing. If the heat was off, the very first instance of the least
severe (hopefully) carb ice would begin to occur, before moving further into
a condition that was conducive to even faster carb ice accretion - so
perhaps, one would miss the initial 'warning' of possibly more progressively
severe conditions that were waiting just a little beyond where one was
flying.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?


I was taught that, in general, if full carb heat brings the carb temp up to a
point of icing, then using NO carb heat will keep the carb cold enough to avoid
icing. I'm not sure this is true however, but in any case, colder air holds
less water.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
heat on.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
I've always wondered about this suggestion? Here's what I'm thinking: If
I
fly along and start getting carb ice, generally, I can apply carb heat and
eventually (hopefully) eliminate the condition. At that point, I am aware
that the conditions are conducive to carb ice and take whatever actions I
deem appropriate. BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


NW_PILOT wrote:

is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I was taught and have read in several publications that you should
always
use full
carb heat if you use it at all.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
decided to descend and it iced up all the way until engine out with carb
heat on.

Yeah, I had that happen on my last carb ice 'adventure', but I've always
presumed it was because the carburetor was ingesting large amounts of ice
and water as carb heat was slowly melting the ice that had accumulated in
the carb's throat - which was causing the engine to intermittently quit.
That is,,,, that I had waited longer than I should have before applying carb
heat and was now melting a large amount of ice that was impeding the carb
throat.

This suggestion is not meant to be a shameless plug, but I'd be interested
to know how closely your experience paralleled with my last (i.e. carb ice
prob), if you wouldn't mind taking a peek at this link to the description of
my experience and could e-mail me later after reading it - telling me how
closely our two experiences paralleled.... Just curious.

The link is: http://www.bayareapilot.com/7700AThollister.htm
email me at:


--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
heat on.

But you were descending. Along with using carb heat, one needs to remember
to push the power up every now and then so that the engine is actually
providing enough heat to melt the ice.

Your experience isn't an argument in favor of partial carb heat.

Pete

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:44:07 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
heat on.

But you were descending. Along with using carb heat, one needs to remember
to push the power up every now and then so that the engine is actually
providing enough heat to melt the ice.

Your experience isn't an argument in favor of partial carb heat.

Did someone post the information about the recent British air
authority decision that pilots could not be trusted to properly apply
carb heat and that the situation ought to be taken out of their hands?

The solution, they say, is to make the application of carb heat either
not needed (fuel injection) or automatic, like it was for years before
fuel injection in cars.

Corky Scott