planes vs cycles

General Aviation 0.036 / million passenger-miles
Motorcycles 0.309 / million passenger-miles

Making GA about 9 times safer than motorcycles to get from one place to
another.

Another shibboleth ruined!

What do the same statistics say about GA and automobiles?

Of course, as posted earlier, it really should be *driver*-miles, not
passenger-miles, since automobiles likely carry more people on average
than GA aircraft.

And where does GA stop? Does it include biz jets? I think what most of
us would like to know is the hazard of *lightplanes" perhaps defined
as single-engine recips. I don't suppose there are enough P-51s around
to skew the numbers.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
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Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
What do the same statistics say about GA and automobiles?



This keeps popping up but in the end, any transportation system is only as
safe as it's operators make it. You can make aviation very safe or very
dangerous and the same goes for driving and cycling. However, on the roads
your safety is more dependant on others than in aviation.

A few days ago I was rear ended while driving my Accord at 35 on a local
main road. The lady who hit me was driving a large SUV at around 55 and
said she wasn't looking when she hit me. They are going over my car now but
it may very well be totalled (I was extremely lucky and was not injured).
In my experience driving seems obvoiusly more dangerous than aviation
especially when you figure in the experience and competence of the other
operators.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


General Aviation 0.036 / million passenger-miles
Motorcycles 0.309 / million passenger-miles

Making GA about 9 times safer than motorcycles to get from one place to
another.

Another shibboleth ruined!

What do the same statistics say about GA and automobiles?

Of course, as posted earlier, it really should be *driver*-miles, not
passenger-miles, since automobiles likely carry more people on average
than GA aircraft.

Really? Most cars I see on the highway are empty, but our plane is usually
2 or 3 people (sometimes 5 or 6).

Could the airports install PlanePool lanes? Or maybe ATC could give priority
to planes with two or more people aboard.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:02:49 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

Really? Most cars I see on the highway are empty,

Most of the one's I've seen have at least one driver. Where do you
live?

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 19:28:12 GMT, Duck Dog wrote:

Most of the one's I've seen have at least one driver. Where do you
live?

In the Washington suburbs, drivers are known to buy inflatable dolls
for the purpose of planting one in the passenger seat, so as to
qualify for the car-pool lane.

Now hybrid cars also qualify.

I can see the day when empty cars will indeed be on the road. I wonder
if an empty hybrid still qualifies for the car-pool lane?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 05:53:40 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 19:28:12 GMT, Duck Dog wrote:

Most of the one's I've seen have at least one driver. Where do you
live?

In the Washington suburbs,

My condolences. I grew up there, and go back every now and then.
What a zoo.

drivers are known to buy inflatable dolls
for the purpose of planting one in the passenger seat, so as to
qualify for the car-pool lane.

Is it still 2 drivers on 66 and 3 on 95?

Now hybrid cars also qualify.

I can see the day when empty cars will indeed be on the road. I wonder
if an empty hybrid still qualifies for the car-pool lane?

Like I said, I would hope that it would at least have a driver.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

General Aviation 0.036 / million passenger-miles
Motorcycles 0.309 / million passenger-miles

Making GA about 9 times safer than motorcycles to get from one place to
another.

Another shibboleth ruined!

What do the same statistics say about GA and automobiles?

Automobiles 0.021 / million passenger-miles

Making the fatality rate 70% higher per passenger-mile for GA.

Of course, as posted earlier, it really should be *driver*-miles, not
passenger-miles, since automobiles likely carry more people on average
than GA aircraft.

That is why I also quoted the numbers for vehicle-miles in my earlier
post -- One vehicle, one driver.

Beyond that, the average occupancy of automobiles is typically quoted as
about 1.6 people per vehicle. In General Aviation, as defined by the
FAA, occupancy is a bit over 3 per aircraft.

And where does GA stop? Does it include biz jets?

Yes, which are considered quite safe.

I think what most of us would like to know is the hazard of
*lightplanes" perhaps defined as single-engine recips.

Single engine piston aircraft contribute 60% of all aircraft hours.
Turbojets contribute about 10%, with rotorcraft (7$), turboprops (7%),
and experimentals (5%) contributing most of the rest.

Single engine recips would likely contribute less than 60% of the
passenger-miles, considering the higher speed and greater capacity of
most turboprops and turbojets. Recips probably are involved in more
than their share of all fatal accidents. That suggests that a safety
comparison of small piston aircraft to automobiles on a passenger-mile
basis would be worse than shown above for all GA activity.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:59:33 GMT, James Robinson
wrote:

Recips probably are involved in more
than their share of all fatal accidents. That suggests that a safety
comparison of small piston aircraft to automobiles on a passenger-mile
basis would be worse than shown above for all GA activity.

Okay, I am even more skeptical of the figures than before. While I
realize that bizjets are more dangerous than large airliners, still
they're hardly in the same league as a 172 or Bonanza.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org