Issues around de-ice on a 182

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

I'd be interested to read your go/no go parameters. What kinds of
summer conditions keep you on the ground?

I stay on the ground when my flight would need to penetrate more than
scattered storms, i.e. I don't fly in situations when I can get boxed in
behind me or if I need to cross frontal thunderstorms.

Often that means if I have a 1-day business trip returning in late
afternoon, I drive intead of flying because it isn't worth the worry/risk
that the afternoon storms will be too difficult to penetrate.

I don't think I'm any different than other experienced IFR pilots. When
pilots are scheduled to fly to me for IFR recurrent training who have
well-equipped airplanes, arrival delays are more common due to summer
thunderstorms than to winter icing. When I conducted a group "IFR Survival
Weekend" class a few weeks ago, pilots were concerned about thunderstorms
but wanted to be present for the whole course and therefore about 15 out of
20 drove instead of flying.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
I stay on the ground when my flight would need to penetrate
more than scattered storms, i.e. I don't fly in situations when
I can get boxed in behind me

That would keep me grounded much of the summer down here if I were very
picky about the definition of "scattered." Using satellite NEXRAD
requires me to be much more discriminating about the nature of the
storms. Are they numerous but developing and moving slowly? In that
case I might go if I "need" to (Angel Flight) and I see a route with
plenty of outs available. Are they popping up everywhere and moving
fast? No go. Sometimes the pattern of development is very obvious --
sea breeze storms, for instance -- and the NEXRAD will keep me assured
after takeoff that the route I've chosen is still good.

or if I need to cross frontal thunderstorms.

That's what stopped us short of Jackson, MS. The pilot of the next leg
had to drive out to Laurel in his car and pick up the patient, drive her
back to Jackson and wait for the line to pass.

Often that means if I have a 1-day business trip returning
in late afternoon, I drive intead of flying because it isn't
worth the worry/risk that the afternoon storms will be too
difficult to penetrate.

Yeah, I used to cancel a lot of business flights to Dothan for just that
reason. I haven't since I got the weather link, though.

When I conducted a group "IFR Survival Weekend" class
a few weeks ago, pilots were concerned about thunderstorms
but wanted to be present for the whole course and therefore
about 15 out of 20 drove instead of flying.

Don't get me wrong, thunderstorms still scare the crap out of me. It's
just that now I know where they are and what they're doing: it was the
fear of flying blind that used to keep me on the ground a lot more
often.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

Don't get me wrong, thunderstorms still scare the crap out of me. It's
just that now I know where they are and what they're doing: it was the
fear of flying blind that used to keep me on the ground a lot more
often.

All our aircraft (including the 182s subject to the potential addition of
de-ice) have strikefinders. However, one of the options I'd entertain as
an alternative to the de-ice is weather download.

- Andrew

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
I stay on the ground when my flight would need to penetrate
more than scattered storms, i.e. I don't fly in situations when
I can get boxed in behind me

That would keep me grounded much of the summer down here if I were very
picky about the definition of "scattered."

Out west (I've only flown twice east of the Mississippi in 15 years flying)
it means leaving at sunrise and being back before about 3:00PM.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

Out west (I've only flown twice east of the Mississippi in 15 years
flying)
it means leaving at sunrise and being back before about 3:00PM.

Exactly... same here if I need to be able to rely on getting back.

That means I can't reliably do same-day business trips in the summer but I
often can do so in the winter.



--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

The weather data link (weather in the cockpit) would definitely help 'see'
what's ahead and around corners . My go-no go decisions are made based on
the criteria mentioned above but the screen gives me a good path around the
cells (stick to clear or light green).

Case in point was Friday returning from Ft Myers, Fl to TN. Couldn't get
away until 9pm due to solid lines across FL & GA but after dark, they died
down with large holes to fly thru. We made it without a drop on the wings
(save one little spot in GA)

Having said (?) that, I'd get TKS in a heart beat, if it were available on
my A36.
--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



take off my shoes to reply

TKS is available on A-36 as well as the F-33 and V tail Bonanzas. Contact AS
and T in Salina, KS.

(Richard Kaplan) wrote in message . com...
"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
I don't think I'm any different than other experienced IFR pilots. When
pilots are scheduled to fly to me for IFR recurrent training who have
well-equipped airplanes, arrival delays are more common due to summer
thunderstorms than to winter icing. When I conducted a group "IFR Survival
Weekend" class a few weeks ago, pilots were concerned about thunderstorms
but wanted to be present for the whole course and therefore about 15 out of
20 drove instead of flying.

Wow. I fly in California over teh Sierras and northern Cal. You are
almost guaranteed to get TS in the afternoon but they always seem easy
to go around. I've never had to cancel a summer afternoon flight
because of TS.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
(Richard Kaplan) wrote in message . com...

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
I don't think I'm any different than other experienced IFR pilots. When
pilots are scheduled to fly to me for IFR recurrent training who have
well-equipped airplanes, arrival delays are more common due to summer
thunderstorms than to winter icing. When I conducted a group "IFR Survival
Weekend" class a few weeks ago, pilots were concerned about thunderstorms
but wanted to be present for the whole course and therefore about 15 out of
20 drove instead of flying.


Wow. I fly in California over teh Sierras and northern Cal. You are
almost guaranteed to get TS in the afternoon but they always seem easy
to go around. I've never had to cancel a summer afternoon flight
because of TS.

If you fly in the eastern US for long, you will. TS can be embedded in the
widespread overcast, you can't see `em. Just another manifestation of the
apparently huge differences in weather patterns between E and W US. I've come to
feel I understand summertime weather pretty well, but of course I haven't done
any flying out west, and I suppose it's completely different.

(Richard Kaplan) wrote
I stay on the ground when my flight would need to penetrate more than
scattered storms, i.e. I don't fly in situations when I can get boxed in
behind me or if I need to cross frontal thunderstorms.

Depending on how you interpret that, this kind of approach would have
me grounded half the year. In reality, since I got the stormscope I
have never cancelled a flight for T-storms.

I don't think I'm any different than other experienced IFR pilots.

I think you're dramatically different from experienced IFR pilots on
the Gulf Coast. I suspect you're no different from the pilots in your
neck of the woods. All the Gulf Coast IFR pilots I know who have
equipment and experience comparable to mine have spherics and use it
agressively.

On the other hand, most of these same pilots consider known ice on a
piston airplane something of a joke.

My suspicion is that this has nothing to do with the relative
capability of the equipment or risk tolerance of the pilots and
everything to do with experience. We get very little icing here, and
thus never really learn about it. We know that the ability of a
piston airplane to handle ice is limited, but we don't know how
limited, and we're afraid of getting in over our heads. Since we will
never have the opportunity to develop the necessary experience to get
true utility out of a known-ice plane, we don't bother with it.

On the other hand, we get T-storms every day, and thus become very
familiar with the associated weather patterns. Since we have plenty
of relatively mild T-storm weather (scattered to isolated) to practice
our skills in the course of normal IFR travel (there's no need to go
looking for it) we get very familiar with how our spherics eequipment
works and how the weather patterns develop. We know that the risk of
getting boxed in is real, but we're not too worried about it because
we know how this happens and how to bail out.

Michael