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In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote:
This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight. Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in formation flight so that we can wave to him? We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes when we land. We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip! I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing something, or everyone else! Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other pilot is hand signals. One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a C140. -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
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In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote: In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote: This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight. Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in formation flight so that we can wave to him? We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes when we land. We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip! I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing something, or everyone else! Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other pilot is hand signals. One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a C140. AMEN to that! Formation flying is a precision maneuver -- not to be taken casually. It requires that everybody knows the signals and protocols associated with formation flying. The T34 Assn. has a good formation flying manual, as do the Swift Assn. and the Yak Assn. Every flight should both brief and debrief, so everybody knows what went right as well as what needs improvement. BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man? |
#3
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![]() "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news ![]() In article , Dylan Smith wrote: In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote: This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight. Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in formation flight so that we can wave to him? We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes when we land. We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip! I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing something, or everyone else! Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other pilot is hand signals. One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a C140. AMEN to that! Formation flying is a precision maneuver -- not to be taken casually. It requires that everybody knows the signals and protocols associated with formation flying. The T34 Assn. has a good formation flying manual, as do the Swift Assn. and the Yak Assn. Every flight should both brief and debrief, so everybody knows what went right as well as what needs improvement. BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man? A couple of advantages formation flying provides is extra sets of eyes to help see and avoid and a larger object for others to see. |
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In article .
earthlink.net, Orval Fairbairn wrote: BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man? Yes, he's the Governor and he sometimes flies and does a bit of instruction at the glider club. I don't think his schedule allows him to get out much though! -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
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There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other pilot is hand signals. Agreed - when it's done by people who know what they are doing it is a demonstration of precision aircraft control, and great practice - and very rewarding to the pilots. For superb examples look no further than Blue Angels, Red Arrows and Snowbirds. However, I believe you already know that this is not what I was referring to. I was specifically talking about the clowns who have no interest in learning one single thing after receiving their PP-ASEL (often not even that) who nevertheless go out and fly wingtip to wingtip, with idiotic grin firmly in place, and one hand off the yoke to wave with, and create next weeks NTSB reports. But you knew that, didn't you? -- Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Almost Instrument ![]() Cessna 172H C-GICE |
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tony roberts wrote:
There are many reasons to fly formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other pilot is hand signals. Agreed - when it's done by people who know what they are doing it is a demonstration of precision aircraft control, and great practice - and very rewarding to the pilots. For superb examples look no further than Blue Angels, Red Arrows and Snowbirds. However, I believe you already know that this is not what I was referring to. I was specifically talking about the clowns who have no interest in learning one single thing after receiving their PP-ASEL (often not even that) who nevertheless go out and fly wingtip to wingtip, with idiotic grin firmly in place, and one hand off the yoke to wave with, and create next weeks NTSB reports. But you knew that, didn't you? Formation flying (was Buzzing Fatality) If you want a little experience flying in formation, go get a glider (aero-tow) ticket. During take off, you are flying in formation with the tow plane although you will be 200' away. Your job is to avoid crashing the tow plane by jerking it around. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy enough, but I can't imagine what being 3' away from another airplane would be like. |
#7
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"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53... I can't imagine what being 3' away from another airplane would be like. Scary! Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary. Paul (just come back from my second formation flying weekend ready for "the big one" - 21 ship - in a fortnight's time) |
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In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote: "William W. Plummer" wrote in message news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53... I can't imagine what being 3' away from another airplane would be like. Scary! Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary. Paul (just come back from my second formation flying weekend ready for "the big one" - 21 ship - in a fortnight's time) Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen. It is a lot easier to maintain close formation than more spread out. Do not try it until you review a good formation manual (the T-34 Assn. publishes a good one), review the hand signals and get some formation instructors. All itt takes is brief, practice, debrief; brief, practice, debrief, etc. |
#9
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"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news ![]() In article , "Paul Sengupta" wrote: "William W. Plummer" wrote in message news:9E4Tc.301121$XM6.76668@attbi_s53... I can't imagine what being 3' away from another airplane would be like. Scary! Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary. Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen. Doesn't that make it more than 3' away then? It is a lot easier to maintain close formation than more spread out. If you're confident and skillful enough to do it yes, especially in steep turns. Do not try it until you review a good formation manual Got the RAF manual. review the hand signals You want me to fly close formation AND make/watch for hand signals? :-) and get some formation instructors. Got some of those. All current/ex-RAF/red arrows/display pilots. All itt takes is brief, practice, debrief; brief, practice, debrief, etc. Phew. Yes. Paul |
#10
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![]() Paul Sengupta wrote: "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news ![]() In article , "Paul Sengupta" wrote: Mind you, 3' would be rather too scary. Not when both pilots know what they are doing! Normal close formation discipline is 3' down (wingtip to wingtip), 3' outside (wingtip to wingtip) and 45 degrees back for wingmen. Doesn't that make it more than 3' away then? Yep. About 4.25'. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. |
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