OSH Disappointments

But maybe blacks in America weren't allowed to move on. Maybe after
centuries of slavery and violent discrimination they couldn't.

I know a few African-American University of Iowa professors and employees
who would kick your ass for saying that. Over a beer (after they've dusted
you off) they would tell you all day long that success in this country is
open to ALL, only requiring an education and hard work.

Or are you implying otherwise?

Can you possibly consider the idea that the african experience with
discrimination was far worse than white immigrants, and maybe now most
of the country, including lots of whites, are uncomfortable to a small
or large degree with anything associated with the word "confederate"?

To be uncomfortable over a cute joke about an event that occurred over 140
years ago says a lot more about the people who are upset than it does about
those of us who think the whole controversy is silly.

But the job is done. And the beat goes on.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

Over a beer (after they've dusted
you off) they would tell you all day long that success in this country is
open to ALL, only requiring an education and hard work.


Well, I'd hope for them that they'd be drunk senseless before they said
anything remotely as stupid as that.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Over a beer (after they've dusted
you off) they would tell you all day long that success in this country
is
open to ALL, only requiring an education and hard work.


Well, I'd hope for them that they'd be drunk senseless before they said
anything remotely as stupid as that.

Wow -- what a blatantly prejudicial, inflammatory statement!

A new record -- even for usenet.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

Come on. I mean no disrespect to your professors, and I doubt you have
"cleared" that quasi-quotation with them, but
"...success open to all, requiring only education and hard work" - even
you know that's utter BS. There's simply no debate, at all.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...

Come on. I mean no disrespect to your professors, and I doubt you have
"cleared" that quasi-quotation with them, but
"...success open to all, requiring only education and hard work" - even
you know that's utter BS. There's simply no debate, at all.


Why is that utter BS?

Steven,

Why is that utter BS?


Because it simply isn't true - and even without having the faintest
idea of where you live (in the US or elsewhere), I can safely say that
one thorough look around at your fellow humans will provide ample proof
of that.

Really, I'm willing to discuss a lot of stuff on the Usenet, but to
even try and debate that statement makes no sense.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay Honeck wrote:

snip

I know a few African-American University of Iowa professors and employees
who would kick your ass for saying that. Over a beer (after they've
dusted you off) they would tell you all day long that success in this
country is open to ALL, only requiring an education and hard work.

Or are you implying otherwise?

While the above is no doubt true, it doesn't tell the whole story.
Discrimination still exists. I know someone in the construction business
that wouldn't hire a black man no matter what. To him they are all just
looking to get back on welfare and besides they'd rob him blind anyway.

Want to live the American dream and buy a house? Here in Milwaukee you'd
better not be black. If you actually get a loan (less likely) you'll pay
higher rates and need more money down.

Your friends mention education as a key factor and it certainly is. But
there is certainly not equal access to education right now. It's not really
a racial issue so much as an economic one, but it affects blacks
disproportionally. Nothing perpetuates poverty better than a lack of
education.

We've come a long way but the fact that this subject keeps coming up there
is still work to be done.

snip
--
Frank....H

"Frank" wrote in message ...
We've come a long way but the fact that this subject keeps coming up there
is still work to be done.

I agree. You are fooling yourself if you think that discrimination doesn't
really exist anymore. It's not nearly the factor that it used to be, but it
is still around unfortunately. It's quiet and insidious, like the business
owner you outlined. He's not out burning crosses, but he's practicing racism
just the same. I personally know people that are doing the same thing and it
is shameful indeed.

The way I see it, the solution to racism will not come from government
edicts. It's going to be one person, one family at a time and it is going to
take a while. Civil rights groups don't really help either because they seem
to be more self-serving than anything and seem to be more and more
irrelevent. I think most black folks just want to be left alone to do the
best that they can. They don't want handouts or pity. They want a fair
shake, just like the rest of us. Sometimes they won't get fair treatment,
sometimes they will. It will take time, like I said.

I think Bill Cosby has said some things recently that are right on the mark.
It naturally ****ed off the NAACP et al, but that only proves he was telling
the truth. He basically said that blacks are responsible for their own
success. Period. And with and education and hard work, they can truly
succeed, himself being a prime example.

I think that is what Jay is trying to say too.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

I think Bill Cosby has said some things recently that are right on the
mark.
It naturally ****ed off the NAACP et al, but that only proves he was
telling
the truth. He basically said that blacks are responsible for their own
success. Period. And with and education and hard work, they can truly
succeed, himself being a prime example.

I only wish Cos had spoken out sooner, because there is a whole generation
of black males (and, to a lesser degree, black women) that have been lost in
the inner cities, either to prison or chronic unemployment. Having worked
in the inner city for seven years (in Southeastern Wisconsin), I can
personally attest to this fact.

Education and hard work is the only road to success, but there is a black
sub-culture in America that has completely turned its back on both. It's
pitiful, and truly frightening.

But that's all beside the point. Hard work and education will take you as
far as you want to go in America -- you just have to be self-motivated to do
it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article q7fTc.146734$eM2.87428@attbi_s51, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Education and hard work is the only road to success,

Jay, there are other paths to success. Education and hard work
isn't the only road. And certainly formal education isn't
an absolute requirement. There are plenty of examples of
successful people with limited formal education.


But that's all beside the point. Hard work and education will take you
as
far as you want to go in America -- you just have to be self-motivated to
do
it.

you also have to be realistic. There are things I would dearly love
to do, but I just don't have what it takes. No amount of hard work
or education would have gotten me into space.

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.