"Cleared Straight-In Runway X; Report Y Miles Final"

What would an instructor say when we line up for 'final' at 30 degrees
to the runway? Probably not good job'...

Well, let's see. I got on the ground efficiently and precisely with the
minimum amount of fuel and time required. It was a completely safe
operation, and consistent with my understanding of the FARs and common
sense. Since I do hold a CFI ticket, that's exactly what I would have said
g There's a big difference between teaching a student to fly precise
legs in the pattern, and the real-world of getting from A to B.

What if ATC replies 'make left traffic, report 5 mile left base'?
Would you have driven straight for the numbers?

Nope, I would have driven straight for the normal point in the pattern where
one turns from base to final (approximately 1/2 mile from the numbers at a
45 deg angle to the runway). Actually, your question (although deliberately
smart-alecky and inane), really brings this problem into base relief. Are
you suggesting that I should have picked a point on the EXTENDED BASE 5
miles away and flown to that? If so, I see that as clearly just as wrong as
the "Report Y Miles Final" issue. In my view, a pilot should fly DIRECT to
the turning points in the pattern, NOT artifically extended just because the
controller really wants to know, "When will you be about five miles away?"
Thus, my decision to fly DIRECT to the point in the pattern where one turns
from base to final seems justifiable (while reporting five miles away from
the airport). Thoughts?

Regards, Jim

"HankC" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Cummiskey" wrote in message
...
Hi, all. Ran into this one flying back from KOSH a couple weeks ago:

I check in with the KPRC controller "20 Miles NE" of Love Field in
Prescott,
AZ. She clears me with "Cleared Straight-in Runway 21L, Report 5 miles
final."

I fly directly towards the numbers. My heading was approximately 240
(hence, I'm ~30 deg off of the extended centerline).

At 5 miles from the airport (still offset from the centerline), I report
"5
mile final." She questions my position and gets all snippy (indeed,
darn
right rude) that I am "not on final" since I am not on the extended
centerline. She patronizingly cautions me to be "careful about this."

What would an instructor say when we line up for 'final' at 30 degrees
to the runway? Probably not good job'...

What if ATC replies 'make left traffic, report 5 mile left base'?
Would you have driven straight for the numbers?


HankC



HankC

"Jim Cummiskey" wrote in message
...

What would an instructor say when we line up for 'final' at 30 degrees
to the runway? Probably not good job'...


Well, let's see. I got on the ground efficiently and precisely with the
minimum amount of fuel and time required. It was a completely safe
operation, and consistent with my understanding of the FARs and common
sense. Since I do hold a CFI ticket, that's exactly what I would have
said g There's a big difference between teaching a student to fly
precise
legs in the pattern, and the real-world of getting from A to B.


You were instructed to report a five mile final. You did not comply with
that instruction. You violated FAR 91.123(b).

"Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an
ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised."

"Jim Cummiskey" wrote in message ...
What would an instructor say when we line up for 'final' at 30 degrees
to the runway? Probably not good job'...

Well, let's see. I got on the ground efficiently and precisely with the
minimum amount of fuel and time required.

That happens to me all the time. It does not mean that every flying
decision I make is correct

It was a completely safe
operation, and consistent with my understanding of the FARs and common
sense. Since I do hold a CFI ticket, that's exactly what I would have said
g There's a big difference between teaching a student to fly precise
legs in the pattern, and the real-world of getting from A to B.

What if ATC replies 'make left traffic, report 5 mile left base'?
Would you have driven straight for the numbers?

Nope, I would have driven straight for the normal point in the pattern where
one turns from base to final (approximately 1/2 mile from the numbers at a
45 deg angle to the runway). Actually, your question (although deliberately
smart-alecky and inane), really brings this problem into base relief. Are
you suggesting that I should have picked a point on the EXTENDED BASE 5
miles away and flown to that? If so, I see that as clearly just as wrong as
the "Report Y Miles Final" issue. In my view, a pilot should fly DIRECT to
the turning points in the pattern, NOT artifically extended just because the
controller really wants to know, "When will you be about five miles away?"

Obviously, this is your view, but where is documentation or FARs that
show it to be a true view?

Flying from 20 miles NE to the point 5 miles out on the RW centerline
is a bit less than 16 miles.

So rather than flying 20 miles in a straight line you fly 21 miles in
a pair of lines...


Thus, my decision to fly DIRECT to the point in the pattern where one turns
from base to final seems justifiable (while reporting five miles away from
the airport). Thoughts?

My thoughts are what happens to subsequent inbound traffic on a long
left base told to look for traffic on a long 5-mile final?


HankC

"Jim Cummiskey" wrote in message ...
What would an instructor say when we line up for 'final' at 30 degrees
to the runway? Probably not good job'...

Well, let's see. I got on the ground efficiently and precisely with the
minimum amount of fuel and time required. It was a completely safe
operation, and consistent with my understanding of the FARs and common
sense. Since I do hold a CFI ticket, that's exactly what I would have said
g There's a big difference between teaching a student to fly precise
legs in the pattern, and the real-world of getting from A to B.

What if ATC replies 'make left traffic, report 5 mile left base'?
Would you have driven straight for the numbers?

Nope, I would have driven straight for the normal point in the pattern where
one turns from base to final (approximately 1/2 mile from the numbers at a
45 deg angle to the runway). Actually, your question (although deliberately
smart-alecky and inane), really brings this problem into base relief.

Thank you. I was hoping to get you to look at this from different
*angle*

The need to name-call those with differing opinions is telling.

Are
you suggesting that I should have picked a point on the EXTENDED BASE 5
miles away and flown to that? If so, I see that as clearly just as wrong as
the "Report Y Miles Final" issue. In my view, a pilot should fly DIRECT to
the turning points in the pattern, NOT artifically extended just because the
controller really wants to know, "When will you be about five miles away?"

That is not the question being asked.

The question is "When will you be about five miles out on final?"...

Thus, my decision to fly DIRECT to the point in the pattern where one turns
from base to final seems justifiable (while reporting five miles away from
the airport). Thoughts?

You did not say you were flying to a "the point in the pattern where
one turns from base to final" (original post: "I fly directly towards
the numbers"). Even if you had, you imply (final-ly) that 'final' is
the RW centerline...

After all, how can one fly a 'final' to a point where base intercepts
'final' and then turn on 'final' if you were on 'final' all along?


HankC