Pre-buy Inspection

That's about the furthest thing from the truth I've ever seen in these
newsgroups. A prebuy is a DOZEN times harder than an annual inspection. All an
annual inspection tells you is that nothing on the airplane is worn past service
limits at the time of the inspection.

An annual doesn't tell you that the oil hasn't been changed for two hundred
hours. It doesn't tell you that the tires are down to within a hundredth of an
inch of wear limits. It doesn't tell you that the brakes have less than 10%
service life. It doesn't tell you that the battery has about two tugs left in
it before pooping out completely. Shall I go on?

I don't do prebuys for two reasons. One is that a good prebuy takes me the
better part of 25 hours to do, and I can't charge that kind of money to somebody
who may or may not be the owner of that airplane someday. Two is that I can
actually miss something, by simple oversight or by opinion, that the new owner
will rip me a new one when they have to have that item repaired or replaced.

It just ain't worth it. And I sure as HELL wouldn't consider doing one for
somebody with Kraus' attitude.

Jim



(Lynne Miller)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Truthfully, a good pre-buy is actually an annual inspection.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Jim,
ROFLMFAO.. You don't even know me so your comment about my attitude is
laughable. As far as the pre-buy inspection goes the folks that do them
tell me that they take not anywhere near 25 hours to do. Maybe you are
ripping people off (25 + hours is ridiculous) and that is why you aren't
getting any pre-buy business. But then again I don't know you either so
who's to say right? :-)

I would think that a shop that deals with a specific aircraft day in and
day out would be able to point to the "problem" (expensive) areas of the
aircraft in a reasonable amount of time. At least that is what they tell
me. I think Byerly is a reputable firm and if they told me they can do
it in 8 hours I believe them. It is of course your prerogative to
disagree. Huggs and Kisses

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student airplane purchaser

Jim Weir wrote:
That's about the furthest thing from the truth I've ever seen in these
newsgroups. A prebuy is a DOZEN times harder than an annual inspection. All an
annual inspection tells you is that nothing on the airplane is worn past service
limits at the time of the inspection.

An annual doesn't tell you that the oil hasn't been changed for two hundred
hours. It doesn't tell you that the tires are down to within a hundredth of an
inch of wear limits. It doesn't tell you that the brakes have less than 10%
service life. It doesn't tell you that the battery has about two tugs left in
it before pooping out completely. Shall I go on?

I don't do prebuys for two reasons. One is that a good prebuy takes me the
better part of 25 hours to do, and I can't charge that kind of money to somebody
who may or may not be the owner of that airplane someday. Two is that I can
actually miss something, by simple oversight or by opinion, that the new owner
will rip me a new one when they have to have that item repaired or replaced.

It just ain't worth it. And I sure as HELL wouldn't consider doing one for
somebody with Kraus' attitude.

Jim



(Lynne Miller)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Truthfully, a good pre-buy is actually an annual inspection.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"if they told me they can do
it in 8 hours I believe them.

Jon Kraus

Dream on. You are not very mechanically inclined, are you?
--
Jim in NC

Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-)

Morgans wrote:
"if they told me they can do

it in 8 hours I believe them.


Jon Kraus


Dream on. You are not very mechanically inclined, are you?

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-)

Hmm, a bit too sensitive?

Plonk
--
Jim in NC

Sensitive enough to stick up for myself yes...

Morgans wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-)


Hmm, a bit too sensitive?

Plonk

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Sensitive enough to stick up for myself yes...

I was a bit harsh. What I meant to say, was it is better off, from a
mechanic's viewpoint, to really take the time to tear into things, (not just
look on the surface) to find all the things that will cost you money down
the road, with an airplane you do not own yet.

With an airplane you already own, you will have to suck it up and keep
fixing things as they come up. It will take less time inspecting it, to do
that. IMHO
--
Jim in NC

Ummm... wouldn't that be you Libs not me.... ;-)

PLONK, SLAM, DUNK !!!!

Morgans wrote:
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-)


Hmm, a bit too sensitive?

Plonk

There really is no such thing as "a standard pre-buy". A pre buy can
consist of anything you authorize the mechanic to do. First do a
lookup on who that N number is registered to. Are you really dealing
with the owner? What I would then suggest is you check the plane out
as completely as YOU can. Upholstry, paint, hail damage, how if flies,
do the radios, lights, gyros etc work. Make a written list. Get the
logs. See if they have all the annauls (did they skip any).
Transponder, pitot check. Take the logs to a mechanic. Have him check
the gear and the engine and have HIM look at the logs and AD's. Is
there any damage history? How is the repair?

An O360 Mooney is going to run dollarwise:
FIXED COSTS
$?? Hangar or tie down ($500 to $3000)
$1000-2000 insurance depending on pilot, Call Avemco and get a quote
$1500 annual (just the annual part, not the repairs)

HOURLY COSTS
$25 fuel and oil
$10 maintenance (this one is the bigest unknown)
$10 engine reserve


Jon Kraus wrote in message .. .
Jim,
ROFLMFAO.. You don't even know me so your comment about my attitude is
laughable. As far as the pre-buy inspection goes the folks that do them
tell me that they take not anywhere near 25 hours to do. Maybe you are
ripping people off (25 + hours is ridiculous) and that is why you aren't
getting any pre-buy business. But then again I don't know you either so
who's to say right? :-)

I would think that a shop that deals with a specific aircraft day in and
day out would be able to point to the "problem" (expensive) areas of the
aircraft in a reasonable amount of time. At least that is what they tell
me. I think Byerly is a reputable firm and if they told me they can do
it in 8 hours I believe them. It is of course your prerogative to
disagree. Huggs and Kisses

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student airplane purchaser

Jim Weir wrote:
That's about the furthest thing from the truth I've ever seen in these
newsgroups. A prebuy is a DOZEN times harder than an annual inspection. All an
annual inspection tells you is that nothing on the airplane is worn past service
limits at the time of the inspection.

An annual doesn't tell you that the oil hasn't been changed for two hundred
hours. It doesn't tell you that the tires are down to within a hundredth of an
inch of wear limits. It doesn't tell you that the brakes have less than 10%
service life. It doesn't tell you that the battery has about two tugs left in
it before pooping out completely. Shall I go on?

I don't do prebuys for two reasons. One is that a good prebuy takes me the
better part of 25 hours to do, and I can't charge that kind of money to somebody
who may or may not be the owner of that airplane someday. Two is that I can
actually miss something, by simple oversight or by opinion, that the new owner
will rip me a new one when they have to have that item repaired or replaced.

It just ain't worth it. And I sure as HELL wouldn't consider doing one for
somebody with Kraus' attitude.

Jim



(Lynne Miller)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Truthfully, a good pre-buy is actually an annual inspection.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

I respectfully disagree. A prebuy inspection is what **I** am comfortable with.
And, as I said, I don't do them, because my comfort level is way to hell and
gone off the top end. I want that person buying that airplane to know every
little wear pattern on the airplane, in stark contrast to my annuals which
certify that no part is beyond wear or airworthiness limits.

I stick to my guns. An annual is 2 hours (more or less) of pure inspection. A
prebuy to my standards is 25 hours or so; that's my 12:1 ratio I talked about.
That's why I don't do them for anybody but myself.

Jim


(Doug)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-There really is no such thing as "a standard pre-buy". A pre buy can
-consist of anything you authorize the mechanic to do.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com