Rep vs. Dem Differences

In article , Bob Noel
writes:


Who has paid for the disposal of all that nuclear waste generated by the
power plants

how about having the users of the power plants pay for that?

From their money tree?

Their customers have to pay for it. No business really pays a tax, ultimately
all taxes (including FICA and Personal income) wind up buried in the cost of
goods and services.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

Their customers have to pay for it. No business really pays a tax,
ultimately
all taxes (including FICA and Personal income) wind up buried in the cost
of
goods and services.

It is fascinating to me how few people truly understand this basic law of
economics.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ANB_c.122971$Fg5.92285@attbi_s53...
Their customers have to pay for it. No business really pays a tax,
ultimately
all taxes (including FICA and Personal income) wind up buried in the cost
of
goods and services.

It is fascinating to me how few people truly understand this basic law of
economics.

But it is not the only "law" of economics. Think it through further.
Unless the business is a monopoly AND they provide a product or service for
which there is no alternative, the demand for their product or service
depends very much on their price (the elasticity is less if those conditions
are met). This means several things. They still have to make the
determination of how much profit to build in to their price, as the more
profit, the higher their price, and the less they will sell. They will want
to maximize profit which is not necessarily maximum production. Going
further, and especially in this context, if one particular production method
is taxed there may be alternative production methods which are less taxed
and may represent a greater profit opportunity.

The result is that taxes most definitely DO affect businesses, and since
they cannot pass along all additional expenses to their customers, part of
the tax decreases their profit and so effectively the business owners DO pay
taxes (separate from their personal income taxes, that is).

The result is that taxes most definitely DO affect businesses, and since
they cannot pass along all additional expenses to their customers, part of
the tax decreases their profit and so effectively the business owners DO
pay
taxes (separate from their personal income taxes, that is).

To a degree -- but long before personal "profits" get cut the business
"extras" will go out the window. Things like new equipment, landscaping,
added staff -- ALL of that stuff will be eliminated long before a business
owner's personal income is diminished.

And THAT is how taxes hurt the economy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The result is that taxes most definitely DO affect businesses, and since
they cannot pass along all additional expenses to their customers, part of
the tax decreases their profit and so effectively the business owners DO
pay
taxes (separate from their personal income taxes, that is).

To a degree -- but long before personal "profits" get cut the business
"extras" will go out the window. Things like new equipment, landscaping,
added staff -- ALL of that stuff will be eliminated long before a business
owner's personal income is diminished.

And THAT is how taxes hurt the economy.

All that is true enough, but your analysis is incomplete, Jay.

What happens to the money taxed from businesses and consumers?

The government spends it. Your local government buys a new garbage
truck, and hires a couple of guys to drive it. Or builds a school,
which creates jobs for contractors, masons, electricians, plumbers,
etc. They spend almost all the money they earn.

The Feds pay the troops who in turn buy food and other supplies. The
Feds buys C-130s (even if the Air Force doesn't want them (!) creating
jobs for Lockheed-Martin employees. They in turn buy new cars, gas to
run them, etc.

A couple of those employees might even spend a night at your place on
their way to OSH!

vince norris

In article , "Peter Gottlieb"
writes:


The result is that taxes most definitely DO affect businesses, and since
they cannot pass along all additional expenses to their customers, part of
the tax decreases their profit and so effectively the business owners DO pay
taxes (separate from their personal income taxes, that is).


A tax placed on bakers with names starting with the letters A to M could not be
passed on to the customers because of competition from bakers with
alphabetically later names, but a tax placed on ALL bakers simply raises the
cost of bread, since there are no alternate sources for the product unaffected
by that cost.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Peter
Gottlieb"
writes:


The result is that taxes most definitely DO affect businesses, and since
they cannot pass along all additional expenses to their customers, part of
the tax decreases their profit and so effectively the business owners DO
pay
taxes (separate from their personal income taxes, that is).


A tax placed on bakers with names starting with the letters A to M could
not be
passed on to the customers because of competition from bakers with
alphabetically later names, but a tax placed on ALL bakers simply raises
the
cost of bread, since there are no alternate sources for the product
unaffected
by that cost.


But it does not necessarily raise the price of bread by the full amount of
the tax. The increased price will reduce demand and to optimize profit the
bakers will absorb some of the increase. But why discuss microeconomics
when there are macroeconomic issues...

The general observation that consumers pay all the taxes paid by their
suppliers is of course completely correct. It is somewhat amazing to
consider the true amount of tax that we all pay when everything is accounted
for.

But tax "reform" can only do so much. You can shift the burden around, and
here you hear the various usual Republican and Democrat arguments for whom
should be paying how much, or you can work at reducing the need for the high
burden, which is more along the lines of what I would prefer. However,
there are a lot of very entrenched self and special interests who do not
want change of the latter type and I doubt that any of the present players
have the true desire or if so, the ability, to cause any significant change.

In article , "Peter Gottlieb"
writes:


The general observation that consumers pay all the taxes paid by their
suppliers is of course completely correct. It is somewhat amazing to
consider the true amount of tax that we all pay when everything is accounted
for.


More than merely amazing. The Americans for Tax Reform traced the taxes
imbedded in the cost of various goods. One was a Ford Taurus automobile, priced
at $23,000. They found the car could have been sold, at the same profit, for
$12,700 with the imbedded taxes removed. The buyer of that car, who might be
under the illusion all taxation has been successfully pushed off on "the rich"
pays and astounding $10,700 plus interest when he purchases that car.

Surprise!

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Peter
Gottlieb"
writes:


The general observation that consumers pay all the taxes paid by their
suppliers is of course completely correct. It is somewhat amazing to
consider the true amount of tax that we all pay when everything is
accounted
for.


More than merely amazing. The Americans for Tax Reform traced the taxes
imbedded in the cost of various goods. One was a Ford Taurus automobile,
priced
at $23,000. They found the car could have been sold, at the same profit,
for
$12,700 with the imbedded taxes removed. The buyer of that car, who might
be
under the illusion all taxation has been successfully pushed off on "the
rich"
pays and astounding $10,700 plus interest when he purchases that car.

Surprise!

Of course the big con with taxation and especially indirect taxation is that
it affects the middle classes the worst. The poor have no money so they
cannot spend much. However when they do spend they tend to go for branded
products because of the quality.
I was in India and given a choice of spending a days pay on a quality
branded soap or and hours pay on a local variation it was the quality
version that won out - why because poor people really want value for money
and in this case, the branded soap bar lasted 20 times longer that the cheap
bar.

The middle classes are hit the hardest as for them they are right in the
middle of the income bracket so they have a high marginal and overall tax
burden. As consumers, they also get hammered and with only a little
discretion over what to buy etc they have little choice about the taxes they
pay.

The best off are and always have been are the rich and the tax system is
geared to protect them. When you have more money than you know what to do
with it other than engage in conspicuous consumption then buying anything
not necessary a normal life become cheap. The $1m boat brings with it a
sales tax and a property tax. So what it is still cheap.
The marginal rate of income tax for these people and the overall tax burden
set against their income and wealth is also low. It may seem like a lot of
$s but is still proportionately smaller than the middle classes.

Fairer taxes to me means people paying their fair share. You cannot be more
than fair to one section of society without being less than fair to the
others.

Shift the sales taxes away from the things people need to have to live and
put tax on the things that are not essentials to live.

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
More than merely amazing. The Americans for Tax Reform traced the taxes
imbedded in the cost of various goods. One was a Ford Taurus automobile,
priced
at $23,000. They found the car could have been sold, at the same profit,
for
$12,700 with the imbedded taxes removed. The buyer of that car, who might
be
under the illusion all taxation has been successfully pushed off on "the
rich"
pays and astounding $10,700 plus interest when he purchases that car.

Surprise!

No surprise.

But just how to you plan on getting the government to release itself from
the public teet? Our two significant parties don't seem differentiable from
one another when it comes to spending money, they only argue about where.

You can shift around who pays the biggest tax burden, you can shift around
programs, but the only way to fix things is to reduce how much is spent and
this is an enormously difficult problem to tackle.