Aviation crash videos on-line

Thank you for posting this. On these groups it probably won't change
anything, but thank you anyway.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Cool Videos" is just the right term to pick for depicting people
dying
in airplane crashes.....why it's JUST the thing for a guy who's
everyone's equal in the 'ethics" department!!

************************************************** ***

TO THE GROUP..... Regarding Iwan Bogels"


Michael wrote:

As it is, you have a freak show and little else.

For the last number of days Iwan Bogels"
has crossposted the same or similar message into a variety of
groups like this inviting you to visit his site, and view his videos,
so that you may become educated, and learn from the mistakes
of others.

In the piloting newsgroups he has been trying to justify his freakshow
with a number of the regulars who surprising enough for the most part
didn't see all that much wrong with it.

For the groups information.

A few years ago when the reality TV programs started to hit the air,
there was someone named Jeremy Peevers ( I believe ) and others
who were posting to the aviation newsgroups looking for footage
similar to what Mr. Bogels is showing on his website.

In the rec.aviation.homebuilt, and rec.aviation.rotorcraft groups
(where I generally lurk) they were basically told to **** off by the
majority or regulars who were offended that someone was looking for
death and destruction videos so they could be shown of national TV for
a profit under the guise of entertainment.

I personally asked on numerous times (in the group) if Real TV would
be
interested in clear, well lit, sharply focused, footage of a young
girl
being decapitated by a helicopter rotor and how much they would be
willing to pay.

That usually shut them up.

They didn't want videos of people out actually enjoying a day at the
airport, with shots of airplanes taking off, flying and landing.

They wanted videos of total destruction, fireballs, cartwheels,
well ........ you get the picture.

The other day Iwan Bogels" crossposted
his message into this set of newsgroups looking for hits to his site.

alt.disasters.aviation, fr.rec.aviation, rec.aviation.military,
rec.aviation.piloting, rec.aviation.soaring

Yesterday he decided to crosspost his message into this set of
newsgroups.

alt.aviation.safety, aus.aviation, rec.aviation.homebuilt,
rec.aviation.ifr, rec.aviation.student

And today he is crosspoting to this set of newsgroups

rec.aviation.rotorcraft, rec.aviation.student,
rec.models.rc.helicopter

God knows where he will be tomorrow.

I'm certainly not telling anybody what they should or shouldn't look
at
on the Web but let's not delude ourselves into believing the pitch
from
Mr. Bogels this his site is for educational purposes so that pilots,
etc., can learn from the mistakes of others by watching these videos.

As another poster has stated..... And I am quoting him below.

As it is, you have a freak show and little else.

Mr. Bogel...... In my humble opinion the above quoted statement is
hitting the nail squarly on the head and you can dress your site up
any
way you want, and explain anyway you want.... but in my opinion you
are promoting a freak show site and nothing else.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:gwn%c.19949$vy.3595@attbi_s52...

However, for your sake I'll reiterate the point: The "Cool Videos"
page name pre-dates most of the videos. When I started the page, it
WAS just cool videos, with aerobatics, supersonic passes, and
landings
in Iowa City depicted.

Over time, the page has grown to include accidents, miscalculations,
and mechanical failures, as well as video of the 9/11 attacks on the
World Trade Center.

Give me a ****ing break Honek. You HAD to know this heading was there
when you added these pictures of people being killed, ESPECIALLY the WTC
stuff! Who the hell do you think you're kidding anyway?
Regardless of how you started this site, adding death and dying to it
without changing that heading only tells me one thing as a thinking
person; you either did it knowingly, or by not realizing how this would
read to a normal person, you are way too stupid to fly a ****ing
airplane. Give it up before you become one of your own videos.! Oh
yeah.....that would be "COOL" wouldn't it???
You ****ing moron!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

As I stated earlier, the point (already made by an earlier poster) is
well
taken, and I will be changing the name of the page to something more
appropriate when I get a minute.

Hey asshole; you forgot and left the word "enjoy" on the site. You might
consider getting rid of that as well. "Enjoying" people dying is just as
bad as viewing it as "cool"...to normal people anyway!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Jay Honeck wrote:

I will be changing the name of the page to something more
appropriate when I get a minute.

Jay with all due respect it's not the name.

You can call it anything you want.

I know you and I don't see eye to eye - But in my opinion you
have sunk to a new low for which you should be ashamed of.

Your in this newsgroup every day as an INNKEEPER, who is a pilot,
and you are here daily to actively promoting your business. That's
why you always have your business addy as part of your SIG file.

When I visit your website and click on the COOL STUFF link the heading
of the page says this.

The Alexis Park Inn & Suites is far more than a hotel!**
In many ways we are more like an aviator's dream come true,
with historical memorabilia, photos, and collectibles literally EVERYWHERE.**
Over time we have become nearly equal parts museum and hotel! **
*
Click the links below to see more information about the inn, as well as to
view some really cool aviation stuff...

Not everyone who visits your website is into aviation Jay.

I gotta tell you that posting a bunch of pictures of airplanes sent to
you by aviation enthusiasts is one thing and in the overall scheme of
things will offend nobody.

Posting videos of crashes where people are being killed at that instant
is quite something else.

I would think that the American families of those innocent passengers
on that fatefull flight of the B-52 that cartwheeled into the ground
because of the stupidity and arrogance of the pilot, may be getting
just a little tired of running into that piece of video when they
happen to be surfing the web looking for something totally unrelated,
like a room to rent in IOWA City ......

Don't you.....???????????

In my opinion there is absolutely no difference between you as an
INNKEEPER promoting your business here with death videos and that
guy promoting the aircrash video site over in Europe, who has been
spamming his message about educational videos into a dozen
newsgroups these past few weeks.

Please tell the group..... your peers and friends, as well as the rest
of us from around the world, just why you feel it is necessary to show
a laser guided bomb killing a bunch of people on the ground, some of
whom might be just absoluty innocent bystanders, and just how that
promotes your business which is renting rooms to the general public.

When someone visits your website looking for general information as to
what sort of services you provide, is the below quoted message really
the message that you want any potential customers to get.

This incredible video, taken from an F-16 that is dropping a 500 lb.bomb
on a safe-house in Fallujah, Iraq, shows how flexible and precise laser-guided
munitions have become.* As the house is targeted, and the bomb in en route,
dozens of insurgents run outside, on their way to join a nearby battle against
U.S. Marines.** The pilot moves his laser-designator onto these new, moving
targets -- with impressive results.*

Get as mad as you want Jay...... and call me anything you want, but ask
yourself this one question.

Is business really that good, that as an INNKEEPER you can afford to
offend even one potential customer, who after viewing what your posting
on your website, will decide to take their business to another hotel.

Actually, it was the autoland feature that crashed that plane. The computer
wouldn't let the pilot go around.

mike regish

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:EY%_c.306956$eM2.73249@attbi_s51...

The Airbus crash was nothing to do with the FBW system, except in the
sense
that the pilots trusted overmuch in it to keep them from crashing. It was
also not the first fully automatic aircraft, or whatever the exact form of
words you use are. Basically they flew too slow and low and their planning
was poor.

What the hell is the fake bird ad for the Ford Ka doing there?

Respectfully yours

John Mullen

As much as I disagree with Jay about politics, I've got to congratulate him
on getting Dudley to break the cuss barrier.

Way to go Jay! :-) 3 in a row!!!

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...

As I stated earlier, the point (already made by an earlier poster) is
well
taken, and I will be changing the name of the page to something more
appropriate when I get a minute.

Hey asshole; you forgot and left the word "enjoy" on the site. You might
consider getting rid of that as well. "Enjoying" people dying is just as
bad as viewing it as "cool"...to normal people anyway!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Iwan Bogels wrote:

Dear Dudley,

I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you FEEL
to have the right on your side.

This is calledf "cutting". You REALLY ought to learn to do it yourself.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:KAr%c.50146$3l3.38818@attbi_s03...
As much as I disagree with Jay about politics, I've got to
congratulate him
on getting Dudley to break the cuss barrier.

Way to go Jay! :-) 3 in a row!!!

That's just the tip of this iceberg.

Take a look at his post asking me to make comment on his website on each
accident to "help flight safety".
Christ, I lecture all over the damn world on flight safety. I'm
published internationally on the subject. I'm a professional pilot who
has taken an active role in airshow safety for over fifty years. In
other words I'm a bit known in this area.
If I hadn't noticed the "cool" and "enjoy" on his GD site and posted on
it with my name and noticed that afterwards, I can guarantee you that at
least several dozen VERY angry people from various venues of the
professional aviation world including the military fighter community,
the test pilot community, the air race community, AND the air show
community would have marched into his GD hotel office one sunny morning
along with me politely asking as a group that he take my damn name off
his GD web site.
He's damn lucky I caught it, and you can take that one to the bank!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

In my opinion there is absolutely no difference between you as an
INNKEEPER promoting your business here with death videos and that
guy promoting the aircrash video site over in Europe, who has been
spamming his message about educational videos into a dozen
newsgroups these past few weeks.

Think what you will. I receive more positive feedback from that video page
than from any other single page on our website, with the exception of the
Rogue's Gallery.

Please tell the group..... your peers and friends, as well as the rest
of us from around the world, just why you feel it is necessary to show
a laser guided bomb killing a bunch of people on the ground, some of
whom might be just absoluty innocent bystanders, and just how that
promotes your business which is renting rooms to the general public.

My business is secondary to my love of aviation -- plain and simple. If I
wanted to make a lot of money, I wouldn't have sold my last two businesses.

I personally find all aviation videos fascinating, and educational. I also
like to showcase the amazing technological capabilities of our new military
hardware. That video is amazing, fascinating, and educational.

To address your point, the odds of a casual hotel-hunter actually digging
down three levels into the menu system of our webpage to find ANY of my
extraneous pages (I.E.: Videos, the Rogue's Gallery; pictures from Oshkosh;
etc.) are virtually nil.

In fact, the ONLY people I know that have found the video page are pilots
and aviation enthusiasts.

I would think that the American families of those innocent passengers
on that fatefull flight of the B-52 that cartwheeled into the ground
because of the stupidity and arrogance of the pilot, may be getting
just a little tired of running into that piece of video when they
happen to be surfing the web looking for something totally unrelated,
like a room to rent in IOWA City ......

Personally, if one of my family members was killed by the arrogant idiot who
was piloting that B-52, I would want every person in America to see it,
every damned day. I can think of no greater punishment for the so-called
pilot who killed those innocent people.

But that's just me, I guess.

Get as mad as you want Jay...... and call me anything you want, but ask
yourself this one question.

Is business really that good, that as an INNKEEPER you can afford to
offend even one potential customer, who after viewing what your posting
on your website, will decide to take their business to another hotel.

It doesn't work that way, and I won't get mad at you -- but if it did work
that way the answer to your question would be "yes."

Go to Yahoo. Type "Iowa City Hotel" into the search screen. See which of
the zillion hotels in our area pops up as Number One at the top of the list,
at the very top of the page.

You may find it amazing that a tiny, independent, non-chain hotel can be
rated most popular in the area, ahead of the Sheraton's and Holiday Inn's,
no? Well, outstanding service + outstanding rates + outstanding aviation
theme suites = success. We do whatever it takes to make sure our guests are
supremely pampered, and it shows in our bottom line.

It ain't rocket science, and a video page of unique and fascinating aviation
videos isn't going to change that equation one way or the other.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Well, I'll give you this much Honek. I missed your "cool" sign for some
reason the first time I checked out your site and posted back on your
"request" that I join you in "changing" things I've already been
changing for the last fifty years; not realizing that sign was there. My
mistake!
I don't give a rat's ass how many posts have addressed this issue. One
fact remains for me when dealing with you on this, and that is the
simple fact that of all the titles you could have used for a site
showing people dying in airplanes you actively thought about it and
CHOSE the phrase "COOL".

You know, Dud, your hypocrisy is really starting to irk me.

1. I've tried to spoon-feed you the explanation for how the page -- an
insignificant page in a gigantic website -- evolved from "cool" videos to
what it is today -- an explanation you have disdained.

2. I have given you every opportunity to explain your ethical (and bizarre)
opposition to the viewing of these videos -- which you have refused to do.

3. I have put up with your condescending tone and sanctimonious attitude --
despite the fact that you quite obviously don't have a clue what you're
talking about.

4. Despite all this, I EVEN GAVE YOU THE CHANCE TO PUT YOUR PERSONAL
IMPRIMATUR ON EACH GOD DAMNED VIDEO, so that they would be truly "safety
oriented" -- an action which you decided you were not qualified to perform.

I have exercised extreme patience with someone I thought was worthy of
admiration and honor over the last several years, hoping that perhaps logic
and good spirits would prevail over irrationality and surliness.

Now you have the audacity and impudence to insult and threaten me, in this
public forum (AND in private email)?

At last your true colors are showing, sir. What a shame.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"