Jammed Elevator

"Dale" wrote in message
...
When you raise or lower the elevator, the trim tab moves variably with
the angle of the elevator.

Not on the single engine Cessna aircraft it doesn't. With the possible
exception of the Cardinal which has a stabilator.

Actually, if you look closely, the trim tab does move as the elevator moves,
even on the non-stabilator Cessnas. It's not a very large deflection, and
whether it does or not isn't really relevant to this thread anyway, but it
does move.

The movement of the Cardinal's trim tab is much more pronounced, I certainly
will grant.

Pete

172's and 182's it does. Move the elevator up or down and you will see
the relative angle of the trim tab change with respect to the elevator.

Dale wrote:
In article ,
john smith wrote:


Yes, Peter, I do know that.
It is very evident when preflighting an aircraft.
When you raise or lower the elevator, the trim tab moves variably with
the angle of the elevator.


Not on the single engine Cessna aircraft it doesn't. With the possible
exception of the Cardinal which has a stabilator.

Go back and read my original posting referencing the website on
servo/anti-servo tabs.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"john smith" wrote in message
...

Yes, Peter, I do know that.


Then why did you write "the trim works independent of the elevator". It
certainly does not. It relies on the elevator to do its job. It is
anything *but* independent of the elevator.

There are examples of airplanes with trim that *truly* works "independent of
the elevator". For example, airplanes with horizontal stabilizers that are
adjusted with the trim control, but which have a regular elevator as well
(i.e. *not* a stabilator-equipped airplane). Another example are the Lake
amphibians, which have one or two (depending on the model) elevator-like
control surfaces (commonly called "split elevator"), hinged and controlled
completely independently from the elevator itself.

Your original comment about elevator trim made no mention of the fact that
the elevator trim behaves opposite from normal when the elevator is stuck,
nor did your follow-up post. It was not clear at all that you understood
what the elevator trim did; assuming that none of this is news to you, I
suggest you could use some work on being more specific about what you post,
and not writing things that mean something other than what you really intend
(like using the word "independent" when it's not applicable at all).

Pete

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Go back and read my original posting referencing the website on
servo/anti-servo tabs.

I already read your post and the website. The content of the website is
irrelevant, since there was no indication that you actually understood what
the website says.

In any case, I'm willing to believe you have a clue. But if you do, you
completely failed to demonstrate that in either of the two posts where you
had an opportunity to do so. Your improper use of the word "independent"
completely changed whatever meaning you may have intended.

If that doesn't concern you, that's fine. I'm simply offering that insight,
and if you are unwilling to take advantage of it, it's no skin off my nose.
Good luck...

Pete

Okay, if I said by independent, it is moved by cable connected to a
wheel and not by the yoke or stick, would that satisfy you?

Peter Duniho wrote:
"john smith" wrote in message
...

Go back and read my original posting referencing the website on
servo/anti-servo tabs.


I already read your post and the website. The content of the website is
irrelevant, since there was no indication that you actually understood what
the website says.

In any case, I'm willing to believe you have a clue. But if you do, you
completely failed to demonstrate that in either of the two posts where you
had an opportunity to do so. Your improper use of the word "independent"
completely changed whatever meaning you may have intended.

If that doesn't concern you, that's fine. I'm simply offering that insight,
and if you are unwilling to take advantage of it, it's no skin off my nose.
Good luck...

Pete

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Okay, if I said by independent, it is moved by cable connected to a
wheel and not by the yoke or stick, would that satisfy you?

It's not a question of "satisfying" me. But if you're going to ask that
question, then I'd suggest you consider whether there are ANY trim systems
that don't qualify as "independent" under that definition (I assume the
important part of your definition is the "not by the yoke or stick", rather
than the "moved by a cable").

There are, of course -- the Cirrus trim system comes to mind -- but they are
incredibly rare. I don't think that's a very useful definition of
"independent", because it fails to rule out practically all trim systems.
But in any case, if that's the definition you're going to use, you ought to
have been explicit about it, since I don't think most people would
immediately think of that use of the word when it's written.

Pete

Peter, stay on topic, this is a Cessna 206.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"john smith" wrote in message
...

Okay, if I said by independent, it is moved by cable connected to a
wheel and not by the yoke or stick, would that satisfy you?


It's not a question of "satisfying" me. But if you're going to ask that
question, then I'd suggest you consider whether there are ANY trim systems
that don't qualify as "independent" under that definition (I assume the
important part of your definition is the "not by the yoke or stick", rather
than the "moved by a cable").

There are, of course -- the Cirrus trim system comes to mind -- but they are
incredibly rare. I don't think that's a very useful definition of
"independent", because it fails to rule out practically all trim systems.
But in any case, if that's the definition you're going to use, you ought to
have been explicit about it, since I don't think most people would
immediately think of that use of the word when it's written.

Pete

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Peter, stay on topic, this is a Cessna 206.

So what if the original airplane was a 206? Are you trying to say that one
should only interpret the word "independent" as it might apply to the 206?
That the general definition as it might apply to all airplanes is
irrelevant?

Why bother saying that the trim control is "independent" at all then? Why
not just say "it's a 206 trim control"? I mean, as near as I can tell from
what "logic" you've been using, that would say all that needs to be said.

Anyway, it's clear you don't really care whether anyone actually understands
what you write, and like I said, it's not a question of "satisfying" me.
You do what you like, the rest of us will just stand by and watch you make
yourself look dumb.

Pete

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

stand by and watch you make yourself look dumb.

With all your ranting you're not looking like a shining star either.

Sheesh, I'm sorry I posted anything.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

I think if you would look really closely, the airspeed would stabilize at a
pretty much given number with a fixed elevator
position. Whether you climb, cruise or descend would depend on power. The
rest is probably the phugoid motion
causing the airspeed variations. One of these times do some experimenting
with blocked controls. Or disconnected
controls. You can simulate blocked by using various sized stuff to keep the
stick fixed. To simulate disconnected, let
go. I found I could easily control my aircraft by using flaps instead of
elevator. In fact it seemed
so stable that I let go of the ailerons and rudders also. So no elevator, no
aileron, no rudder. Just flaps. It established
a spiral and just stayed there. I could only get it to tighten up a bit by
letting the phugoid get more severe. When I
damped out the phugoid, the spiral lessened and it went back to a stable
spiral descent. This would
have been a bail out situation for me because it would mean contacting the
ground with the tip first. Add a tad
of rudder or aileron control and it would have been quite survivable. One
other interesting thing, I could not get it
to establish a straight ahead wings level stable condition (no fair touching
the stick or rudders after you let go).
It would eventually end up in a stable shallow spiral one direction or the
other. Maybe I need to look at the flaps
and see how they match up. On the other hand, I think I'll just keep my
chute on and know that if the controls all
break at the same time it's time to jump.

How many others of us know how many controls can break before they need to
jump? What? They don't know?

Dale wrote in message ...
In article ,
"dennis brown" wrote:

As I recall, you said it stabilized at about 80 kts, reduced power,
slight
descent.
Sounds like you had a nice approach set up. 80 might be a tad high for a
light
206. At what speed did it stabilize with no power?

Less than about 14 inches and the nose would drop, more than about 14
inches and the nose would pitch up.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html