Considerations for joining flying club

Roy Smith wrote
In general, I would expect a club to have less restrictive rules than an
FBO

Let's just say this has not been my experience. Maybe that's why
there are not many clubs in my area (and none on my field). I think
clubs tend to form when the local FBO's get obnoxious.

Nobody wants other club members to
be reckless with the airplanes, and it is inevitable that within any
group of people, there will be different opinions on where "fun and
challenging" leaves off and "reckless" begins.

Of course the ones who think it's reckless are wrong

I'm actually about 99% serious about this. 99% of the time, when
someone says "that's reckless" what he really means is "I couldn't
pull this off consistently AND I don't want you to do it."

Here's what makes a club worse. At an FBO, one guy is boss. He has
his hot buttons, and those become rules. At a club, these things are
done by committee. There is compromise. Unfortunately, the
compromise usually turns out to be "I'll vote for your hot-button
rules if you vote for mine." That's how formation flights,
acrobatics, and such get banned.

You would think that there would be a healthy push back from the
people who don't like making rules, but they're usually not there at
the board meeting. They're too busy flying formation, doing acro,
etc.

My club used to have no rule about grass at all. A few years back,
somebody brought our Arrow back covered with grass stains. A discussion
ensued, and we ended up passing a rule forbidding landing any of our
retracts on a non-paved runway. Oddly enough, we don't require any
special checkout for grass.

See, this is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. Grass
stains? My god - do you really think tall grass is rougher on the
airplane than concrete dust? I pretty routinely operate my Twin
Comanche off grass. I know guys who base Barons and C-310's off
grass. An Arrow on grass is a non-event.

On the other hand, there ARE things to know about landing on grass.
Most of it has nothing to do with the actual takeoff and landing - dry
grass in good condition requires no special technique. But there is a
lot to know about asessing the quality of a grass surface before you
land on it, deciding when to abort a takeoff, etc. Given how pathetic
the FAA requirements are in this area, a special checkout would make
sense. Preferably from someone who has plenty of experience landing
fast, heavy, retractable gear airplanes on unpaved strips.

Most rules come about because at one time in the past, somebody did
something which other people considered unacceptable and they wanted to
try and prevent it from happening again. Congress does this, the FAA
does this, FBO's do it, and there's no reason to be surprised when clubs
do it too. It's the way life works.

Yup. Only at an FBO, it has to be something the owner found
unacceptable. The FAA is slow and bureaucratic - one incident is
rarely enough to make anything happen. Ditto Congress. Clubs,
unfortunately, tend to combine the worst of all worlds.

I would certainly urge anybody who is thinking of joining a club to read
all the rules carefully before joining.

As well as find out how difficult it is to make rules, and what people
in the club do. For example, if people routinely fly formation, it's
not likely that it will be forbidden. On the other hand, if you do it
and start doing it, the club weenies may well decide to forbid it - or
to make everyone get FAST cards, which is about the same.

Michael

In article , Michael wrote:
As well as find out how difficult it is to make rules, and what people
in the club do.

This probably explains the lack of silly rules in the BAAC - a change to
the bylaws required a vote *by the whole membership*, not just the
board.
The other thing about the club is it didn't own the aircraft (and
therefore the initiation fee and membership dues were very low), it
leased them back (the owner set the dry rate and organized maintenance -
the club didn't skim a single penny off the owner's rate so it was
perfectly possible for an owner to make their plane pay, but our rates
still be $10/hr cheaper than the FBO on the field). Occasionally, owners
would have some stipulations about their aircraft, but generally these
were checkout requirements (such as the Bonanza owner wanted 5 hours in
type - additionally, the insurance required you have 10 hours in type
before taking passengers, and the owner was quite happy for you to go
from 5-10 hours solo).

Overall, I think this structure of club worked well. We only kicked one
member out in the 20 years the club has been around.

The whole 3000' runway is asinine whether it comes from an FBO or a
club, especially applied to planes like C172s which can be landed and
stopped *with no short field techniques at all* and without even using
the brakes in half that distance. Any newly minted PPL should be able to
land and stop on a 3000' runway in a C172 or Cherokee without using the
brakes. It's a good job that clubs etc. don't try that rule here as most
GA fields in the British Isles are grass and under 3000'!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Y'all,
Over 35 years in a club and I have found that the ethics of the board and
officers are critical.

By laws can be written and re-written to provide 'required' flight time for
a favored few. Expense to my club is now over $500 per month.

On short notice bylaws may be re-written to require anyone
running for office to have attended all meetings of the previous year..

By-laws may make it possible for removal from the club without
cause. Member may be informed (by phone) that attendence to club meetings
will cause removal.

Waiting list is a joke. Membership selection is based on income over all
other considerations other than nepotism.

Maintenance officers may lie to pilots by telling them it is o.k. to fly an
aircraft that the FAA would call un-airworthy. The
critical element is that the pilot is putting his license at risk. The
insurance company will void any insurance claims from such an aircraft.
Depending on legal interpretations the total membership can be liable for
any accident far beyond the value of the club.

Been there, seen that.

Gene Whitt