Another Cirrus 'chute deployment

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Michael 182 wrote:

Glad the chute worked, but what would cause an airplane to stall at
16,000
feet, then encounter turbulence that would send it into a spin at 15,000
feet?

My take on the article, based on past news media aviation ignorance, is
that the engine most likely quit at 16,000.

I know we are all engaged in guesswork at this point, but if an engine fails
at 16,000 feet I would expect that there is a nice long glide availble
(regardless of turbulence) that would likely yield a pretty good landing
spot. I know, I wasn't there - I'm not judging, just wondering...

Michael

Michael 182 wrote:

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Michael 182 wrote:

Glad the chute worked, but what would cause an airplane to stall at
16,000
feet, then encounter turbulence that would send it into a spin at 15,000
feet?

My take on the article, based on past news media aviation ignorance, is
that the engine most likely quit at 16,000.

I know we are all engaged in guesswork at this point, but if an engine fails
at 16,000 feet I would expect that there is a nice long glide availble
(regardless of turbulence) that would likely yield a pretty good landing
spot. I know, I wasn't there - I'm not judging, just wondering...

I totally agree with you. BTW, I am not speculating, just interpreting
the article.

--
Peter

I know we are all engaged in guesswork at this point, but if an engine
fails
at 16,000 feet I would expect that there is a nice long glide availble
(regardless of turbulence) that would likely yield a pretty good landing
spot. I know, I wasn't there - I'm not judging, just wondering...

Having just flown in that part of the world, I can safely say that an engine
failure at 16K *might* only give you a couple of thousand feet to think
about finding a landing spot, depending on the terrain. A long glide might
not be in the cards.

Worse, there were plenty of spots in the mountains where an engine failure
would have been non-survivable.

Unless, of course, you had a ballistic 'chute to deploy, like this guy did.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...or/9723097.htm

I'm a bit concerned that I never heard about another recent deployment...

"Still, the parachute system has not proven a cure-all, as evidenced by the
Sept. 10 crash of a Cirrus SR22 in Park Falls, Wis. That crash claimed the life
of Gerald Miller, 60, of Seboygan, Wis."

It doesn't make clear whether the old fellow in Sheboygan deployed...

(StellaStar) wrote in message ...
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...or/9723097.htm

I'm a bit concerned that I never heard about another recent deployment...

"Still, the parachute system has not proven a cure-all, as evidenced by the
Sept. 10 crash of a Cirrus SR22 in Park Falls, Wis. That crash claimed the life
of Gerald Miller, 60, of Seboygan, Wis."

It doesn't make clear whether the old fellow in Sheboygan deployed...

Well, I look at a BRS the same way I look at an ejection seat: as a
last-ditch system that gives you a fighting chance, not a guarantee.

In some cases, say some kind of structural failure or engine failure
over open water, it's a no-brainer. You pull the cord and become a
passenger.

What I'd wonder about, were I wealthy enough to have problems like
this, is what about more marginal cases. Let's say I'm flying up here
in densely populated New England, on top of an overcast at 4000' at
night, and the engine quits. Let's say I've got 1500' ceilings. Do I
pull the plug right away, or do I drop down through? How high do I
have to be for the chute to open properly? Anything I can do to
position myself so that the chute puts me down in that parking lot,
rather than on I-95, or into some hospital building?

Maybe I'm nuts for thinking about a bunch of highly unlikely
situations when there are a dozen other things ten times more likely
to kill me. who knows.

Best,
-cwk.

("C Kingsbury" wrote)
snip
What I'd wonder about, were I wealthy enough to have problems like
this, is what about more marginal cases. Let's say I'm flying up here
in densely populated New England, on top of an overcast at 4000' at
night, and the engine quits. Let's say I've got 1500' ceilings. Do I
pull the plug right away, or do I drop down through? How high do I
have to be for the chute to open properly? Anything I can do to
position myself so that the chute puts me down in that parking lot,
rather than on I-95, or into some hospital building?


From the Cirrus web page:
http://www.cirrusdesign.com/servicec...ml/pohmain.asp

(Same link as above)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T27445959

(I put you in an SR20. Hope that's ok)

SR20 POH
Section 3 - Emergency Procedures (randomly cut/pasted)


Emergency Landing (Engine-out):
Flaps
Up................................................ ......................
........86 KIAS
Flaps
50%............................................... ......................
......81 KIAS
Flaps
100%.............................................. ......................
.....75 KIAS

Maximum Glide Ratio ~ 10.9 : 1

.. Note .
With a seized or failed engine, the distance that the airplane
will glide will be more than the distance it would glide with the
engine at idle, such as during training.

If the propeller is windmilling, some additional glide range may
be achieved by moving the Power Lever to idle and increasing
airspeed by 5 to 10 knots.

(Cirrus Airplane Parachute System - CAPS)
The minimum demonstrated altitude loss for a CAPS
deployment from a one-turn spin is 920 feet. Activation at
higher altitudes provides enhanced safety margins for
parachute recoveries. Do not waste time and altitude trying to
recover from a spiral/spin before activating CAPS.

(V-PD) Maximum Demonstrated Parachute Deployment Speed is
the maximum speed at which parachute deployment has
been demonstrated.

The maximum demonstrated deployment speed is 135 KIAS.
Reducing airspeed allows minimum parachute loads and prevents
structural overload and possible parachute failure.


Bon voyage :-)

Montblack

The FAA report gives the position of his last radio contact as 2 miles east
of Manteca. This is right in the middle of the California Central Valley -
flat farm land, about 50' MSL that stretches uninterrupted north to south
for more than 350 miles. It is probably the longest emergency landing strip
west of the Rockies. There is no shortage of real airports either.

I would assume that either the spin was not recoverable, or the pilot simply
followed the instructions to use the BSR in the event of a spin. The real
question is how you could get into a spin from turbulence in cruise flight
in the first place. However, there were some mean thunderstorms in the area
at the time (2" of rain fell in Sacramento earlier in the day and the
weather was heading SW towards the accident area). Basically it was a mean
cold front that swept through the area about the time of the accident- and
it certainly wasn't forecast to be as wild as it turned out (wild by CA
standards that is). I would think he more than likely got caught up in some
of that convective activity.

I just got thinking why would you be at 16,000' over the CA Central Valley ?
I like to fly high, normally 8,500' is my min altitude while, I'm flying XC
around the state, but the oxygen requirements keep me below 12,500'. Even if
I had oxygen on board - I would probably not use it until I had to get to
altitude. For example, If you fly IFR than many of the MEA's over the
mountains are going to force your to have oxygen.

But say I was flying VFR, and I saw a line of CB ahead of me, I might be
tempted to push it and try to climb over them. Maybe, there is already a
layer underneath me so I can't get down to go underneath. Maybe, I just
don't want to be under a big mean CB build-up when it looks like it tops out
only a few thousand feet higher. Hopefully I have ox or maybe I figure I'll
be "over the hump" before I'll really need it. Either way I start climbing.
16,000' and the plane really doesn't want to go any higher, I've maxed out
the power, I'm pitched for best climb maybe a bit more and I'm still looking
like I'll enter the top of the cloud. I starting to get worried, maybe I'm
not IFR rated and anyway that is a mean CB cloud under me. I really don't
want to be inside it. Without realizing it, I'm dangerously close to a
stall. Maybe, I decide I've had enough and decide to do a 180, but as I
turn, the plane stalls. I wasn't expecting it and before I know it I'm into
the cloud getting kicked all over the place. Right about then I'd be really
glad if I had a parachute.

Brenor Brophy wrote:

I just got thinking why would you be at 16,000' over the CA Central Valley ?
I like to fly high, normally 8,500' is my min altitude while, I'm flying XC
around the state, but the oxygen requirements keep me below 12,500'. Even if
I had oxygen on board - I would probably not use it until I had to get to
altitude. For example, If you fly IFR than many of the MEA's over the
mountains are going to force your to have oxygen.

Here in the northeast US, there was a lot of thunderstorm activity this
past summer. I fly a turbo Bonanza and when t-storms were in the
forecast, I often chose an altitude in the mid-teens, despite having to
suck on some O2, to have a better chance of spotting the build-ups above
the haze and/or low layers.


--
Peter

Maybe the guy was laid off and/or unable to pay off the aircraft and did
this for the insurance???? or maybe it was a real emergency no one knows
except for the person flying the airplane. I'd seriously be questioning his
judgment from the news article!


"Brenor Brophy" wrote in message
.. .
The FAA report gives the position of his last radio contact as 2 miles
east
of Manteca. This is right in the middle of the California Central Valley -
flat farm land, about 50' MSL that stretches uninterrupted north to south
for more than 350 miles. It is probably the longest emergency landing
strip
west of the Rockies. There is no shortage of real airports either.

I would assume that either the spin was not recoverable, or the pilot
simply
followed the instructions to use the BSR in the event of a spin. The real
question is how you could get into a spin from turbulence in cruise flight
in the first place. However, there were some mean thunderstorms in the
area
at the time (2" of rain fell in Sacramento earlier in the day and the
weather was heading SW towards the accident area). Basically it was a mean
cold front that swept through the area about the time of the accident- and
it certainly wasn't forecast to be as wild as it turned out (wild by CA
standards that is). I would think he more than likely got caught up in
some
of that convective activity.