Aviation fuel - price of crude...

Yeah, lets pump it all out today leaving nothing for the future. Further
petroleum development is not really an answer, supply is going to contract
anyway. Even if there were no restrictions to drilling in the US, the price
wouldn't be affected very much. Far more could be saved through
conservation than could be produced through increased production and the
saving through conservation can be continued forever. Four years ago, GWB
decided not to increase the scheduled CAFE increase for automobiles. So
now, four years later, we have 50,000,000 cars which are getting about 10%
worse fuel economy than they would have if the increase was implemented.
That is just one example. Because we as a nation are so stupid, driving
14mpg cars 50 miles each way to work, the free market is having to impose
disipline by raising the price until some incremental demand is choked off.
I'm as guilty as anyone, flying my own airplane around buring hundreds of
gallons of fuel, but at least I'm not complaining about the outcome. It is
working, sales of SUVs are declining and soon people will start thinking
about how far from work they should live.

Total worldwide oil production will peak this decade and start to decline
regardless of exploration activity. Petroleum is a finite resource with
constantly increasing demand....its pretty simple where that leads...

Mike
MU-2


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Up above $53/barrel now.... Can we *puhleeeze* start developing our own
oil
in Alaska; off the coast of Calif. and the gulf now??? Or should we
just
keep on doing what we are doing ... nothing... in total denial and keep
paying
out the anal cavity to other countries.

In my opinion it is way past time to start developing our own oil here at
home.
Put Americans to work and help our own economy at the same time and reduce
the trade deficit while we are at it. And why not start building a few
more
nuclear power plants to replace some aging fossil fuel plants????

But NO.... if the environmentalists have their way we'll be paying $20
a gallon for gas (GA will no longer exist) and we'll be reminiscing over
some ripped and out of date sectionals by candlelight.

Actually shale oil will be produced when it is economic to do so. Assuming
that prices remain at $50, we will start seeing oil from tar sands and
shale. BTW the largest Saudi fields are now making about 60% water, the
days of cheap energy are behind us.

Mike
MU-2


"kontiki" wrote in message
news
You are quite correct... thanks for the response. There are extensive
oil shale reserves over and above that liquid stuff we have in areas
of Alaska and off the coasts.

Nothing will be done however until we can eliminate the naysayers...
those who continually raise the argument that "our reserves are not
as big as Saudi Arabia's so why even bother?. Lets all just get used
to conserving and doing without (except politicians of course) and
someday [maybe] we'll have alternative forms..."

Using that logic the vast majority of people can argue that they will
never, ever have the vast monetary reserves that John Kerry or Oprah
Winfrey have (to name a few) so why even bother to work hard and try
to make more money??? Lets just all give up... plan to live simpler
lives, go barefoot and ride bikes like other 3rd world countries and
just shut up and vote for John Kerry and be happy about it.

Well apparently thousands of illegal immigrants a day come here for
a better life than they have in their country so I guess they haven't
gotten the message yet.

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today today


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yeah, lets pump it all out today leaving nothing for the future. Further
petroleum development is not really an answer, supply is going to contract
anyway. Even if there were no restrictions to drilling in the US, the
price
wouldn't be affected very much. Far more could be saved through
conservation than could be produced through increased production and the
saving through conservation can be continued forever. Four years ago, GWB
decided not to increase the scheduled CAFE increase for automobiles. So
now, four years later, we have 50,000,000 cars which are getting about 10%
worse fuel economy than they would have if the increase was implemented.
That is just one example. Because we as a nation are so stupid, driving
14mpg cars 50 miles each way to work, the free market is having to impose
disipline by raising the price until some incremental demand is choked
off.
I'm as guilty as anyone, flying my own airplane around buring hundreds of
gallons of fuel, but at least I'm not complaining about the outcome. It
is
working, sales of SUVs are declining and soon people will start thinking
about how far from work they should live.

Total worldwide oil production will peak this decade and start to decline
regardless of exploration activity. Petroleum is a finite resource with
constantly increasing demand....its pretty simple where that leads...

Mike
MU-2


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Up above $53/barrel now.... Can we *puhleeeze* start developing our own
oil
in Alaska; off the coast of Calif. and the gulf now??? Or should we
just
keep on doing what we are doing ... nothing... in total denial and keep
paying
out the anal cavity to other countries.

In my opinion it is way past time to start developing our own oil here
at
home.
Put Americans to work and help our own economy at the same time and
reduce
the trade deficit while we are at it. And why not start building a few
more
nuclear power plants to replace some aging fossil fuel plants????

But NO.... if the environmentalists have their way we'll be paying $20
a gallon for gas (GA will no longer exist) and we'll be reminiscing over
some ripped and out of date sectionals by candlelight.

" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

" gdbutler at bellsouth.net wrote in message
.. .
I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today today

Unfortunately, in spite of the incredibly obvious problems with such a
short-sighted attitude, there are many people who, amazingly enough, agree
with that sentiment.

In truth, you can avoid major problems in the future by worrying a little
today about the problems. If you wait until the future, tiny problems turn
into incredibly large problems.

There are countless examples in history of this, but a recent example would
be the whole "Year 2000" computer software issue. According to your
philosophy, we should have waited until all the software broke, and then fix
it rather than going through all the software ahead of time and making sure
things work when the date rolls over. Furthermore, that example shows very
clearly that the long-term cost is much higher when one doesn't plan ahead;
it would have been minimally expensive to have written the software in the
first place without that limitation, and it cost billions of dollars to fix
it after the fact.

In aviation, one need only look at the benefits of keeping an airplane
properly maintained, rather than waiting for things to break. It is much
more costly to fix things after they break, even if you suffer no greater
indignity than to have to cancel a flight. Heaven forbid something should
break in flight...the costs are guaranteed to be even higher, and could even
involve injury or death.

So, you can go around being ignorant about the concept of planning for the
future if you like, but anyone with any common sense understands what an
idiotic attitude that is.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message


There are countless examples in history of this, but a recent example
would be the whole "Year 2000" computer software issue. ... it would have
been
minimally expensive to have written the software in the first place
without that limitation, and it cost billions of dollars to fix it
after the fact.

Um.... How much Y2K work did you do?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

lol but let me clarify and expand now that all of the philosophers are
upset. Dont worry about tomorrow, just look foreward toward tomorrow and
make the proper decisions today so that there is nothing to worry about.

: )

" gdbutler at bellsouth.net wrote in message
.. .
i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.

lol but let me clarify and expand now that all of the philosophers are
upset. Dont worry about tomorrow, just look foreward toward tomorrow and
make the proper decisions today so that there is nothing to worry about.

: )

" gdbutler at bellsouth.net wrote in message
.. .
i will

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
" wrote:

I say we worry about the future in the future and worry about today
today

Well good bad or indifferent that pretty well sums up the attitude that
many people have.

It covers our insatiable thirst for fuel, our cavilier attitude towards
pollution in every form possible, and our course our lifestyles revolve
around it.

Eat junk food today, pack on the weight and worry about health problems
tomorrow..... that's as good an analogy as any.

Don't worry about global warming, but when Florida is under water, the
mid west is a frozen wasteland, very few countries can grow food due to
plagues of insects, monsoons, or drought, and we are starving while
those in third world countries are already dead.... well maybe then our
grandchildren will actually have to bite the bullet and get down to the
serious business of actually worrying about the future.

But we won't have to worry about it because our time on earth will be
long gone by then, and we will all be dead.

So live for today, eat junk food, burn fuel, and be merry.