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Pilot deviations and a new FAA reality



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 10th 04, 02:37 PM
Stan Prevost
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chip Jones" wrote in message
link.net...
OK pilots, try this one on for size. As you likely know, there is a wide
and growing rift between the career FAA bureaucrats (aka FAA Management)

who
run the monstrosity called the federal Air Traffic Organization, and the
career FAA air traffic controllers who make that monstrosity work in the

NAS
on a daily basis. Regardless of where you stand on the politics of US air
traffic control (funding, privatization, user-fees, labor issues,

whatever),
the ugly, on-going feud between Management and Labor in air traffic

control
may finally have reached a point where you as a pilot will be personally
affected.


Chip, increased emphasis on reporting of pilot deviations seems to lead to a
need for increased pilot understanding of what constitutes a deviation from
an ATC point of view. I doubt that controllers are required to know the
FARs to the depth required to determine if a pilot is operating within the
regulations that apply to pilots in all cases, so a large part of it would
seem to fall back on reporting deviations from an ATC instruction or
clearance. So what constitutes a deviation? As an example, what deviation
in altitude constitutes a reportable deviation, if no loss of separation
occurs? It has been suggested in this thread that the Instrument PTS
standard of +/- 100 ft applies, but I doubt if controllers are familiar with
the PTS. So is there an ATC document that defines deviation limits? How
far off the centerline of an airway can I be before being reported? How
much heading error? How long a delay is allowed before I begin a descent
after being instructed to do so? If I am VFR in Class E airspace, and using
flight following, will I be reported for flying WAFDOF? Should we expect a
report on every student pilot doing T&Gs and landing without clearance,
rather than being scolded for a one-time error, if no problem occured?

Looks like a big can of worms to me.

Sta


  #2  
Old October 11th 04, 01:16 AM
Matt Young
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WAFDOF?

Stan Prevost wrote:
"Chip Jones" wrote in message
link.net...

OK pilots, try this one on for size. As you likely know, there is a wide
and growing rift between the career FAA bureaucrats (aka FAA Management)


who

run the monstrosity called the federal Air Traffic Organization, and the
career FAA air traffic controllers who make that monstrosity work in the


NAS

on a daily basis. Regardless of where you stand on the politics of US air
traffic control (funding, privatization, user-fees, labor issues,


whatever),

the ugly, on-going feud between Management and Labor in air traffic


control

may finally have reached a point where you as a pilot will be personally
affected.



Chip, increased emphasis on reporting of pilot deviations seems to lead to a
need for increased pilot understanding of what constitutes a deviation from
an ATC point of view. I doubt that controllers are required to know the
FARs to the depth required to determine if a pilot is operating within the
regulations that apply to pilots in all cases, so a large part of it would
seem to fall back on reporting deviations from an ATC instruction or
clearance. So what constitutes a deviation? As an example, what deviation
in altitude constitutes a reportable deviation, if no loss of separation
occurs? It has been suggested in this thread that the Instrument PTS
standard of +/- 100 ft applies, but I doubt if controllers are familiar with
the PTS. So is there an ATC document that defines deviation limits? How
far off the centerline of an airway can I be before being reported? How
much heading error? How long a delay is allowed before I begin a descent
after being instructed to do so? If I am VFR in Class E airspace, and using
flight following, will I be reported for flying WAFDOF? Should we expect a
report on every student pilot doing T&Gs and landing without clearance,
rather than being scolded for a one-time error, if no problem occured?

Looks like a big can of worms to me.

Sta


  #3  
Old October 11th 04, 02:03 AM
Roy Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . net,
Matt Young wrote:

WAFDOF?


Wrong Altitude For Direction Of Flight, flying westbound at 7500 instead
of 6500.
  #4  
Old October 11th 04, 02:03 AM
Roy Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . net,
Matt Young wrote:

WAFDOF?


Wrong Altitude For Direction Of Flight, flying westbound at 7500 instead
of 6500.
  #5  
Old October 11th 04, 02:50 AM
J Haggerty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wrong altitude for direction of flight.

JPH

Matt Young wrote:

WAFDOF?

  #6  
Old October 11th 04, 02:50 AM
J Haggerty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wrong altitude for direction of flight.

JPH

Matt Young wrote:

WAFDOF?

  #7  
Old October 11th 04, 04:40 AM
John Clonts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Matt Young" wrote in message news
WAFDOF?


www.acronymfinder.com


  #8  
Old October 14th 04, 06:10 PM
Robert Briggs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Clonts wrote:
Matt Young wrote:

WAFDOF?


www.acronymfinder.com


Well said, sir!

I also wondered what it meant, but very quickly found the answer
from that site.
  #9  
Old October 11th 04, 04:40 AM
John Clonts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Matt Young" wrote in message news
WAFDOF?


www.acronymfinder.com


  #10  
Old October 11th 04, 01:16 AM
Matt Young
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WAFDOF?

Stan Prevost wrote:
"Chip Jones" wrote in message
link.net...

OK pilots, try this one on for size. As you likely know, there is a wide
and growing rift between the career FAA bureaucrats (aka FAA Management)


who

run the monstrosity called the federal Air Traffic Organization, and the
career FAA air traffic controllers who make that monstrosity work in the


NAS

on a daily basis. Regardless of where you stand on the politics of US air
traffic control (funding, privatization, user-fees, labor issues,


whatever),

the ugly, on-going feud between Management and Labor in air traffic


control

may finally have reached a point where you as a pilot will be personally
affected.



Chip, increased emphasis on reporting of pilot deviations seems to lead to a
need for increased pilot understanding of what constitutes a deviation from
an ATC point of view. I doubt that controllers are required to know the
FARs to the depth required to determine if a pilot is operating within the
regulations that apply to pilots in all cases, so a large part of it would
seem to fall back on reporting deviations from an ATC instruction or
clearance. So what constitutes a deviation? As an example, what deviation
in altitude constitutes a reportable deviation, if no loss of separation
occurs? It has been suggested in this thread that the Instrument PTS
standard of +/- 100 ft applies, but I doubt if controllers are familiar with
the PTS. So is there an ATC document that defines deviation limits? How
far off the centerline of an airway can I be before being reported? How
much heading error? How long a delay is allowed before I begin a descent
after being instructed to do so? If I am VFR in Class E airspace, and using
flight following, will I be reported for flying WAFDOF? Should we expect a
report on every student pilot doing T&Gs and landing without clearance,
rather than being scolded for a one-time error, if no problem occured?

Looks like a big can of worms to me.

Sta


 




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