Letter from Jess Meyers

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
snip

Oh Yeah! We're the FIRST generation to have Michael Jackson! :0) :-)

Seriously, though I'm not disputing that environmental factors are
important. At the same time I cannot discount the other factors the article.
Those other things: genetic disposition to different metabolic rates, leptin
resistance, leptin levels, increased triglycerides, a virus previously
unknown - may have always been there and are just now being investigated.

If the changes you mention have come in the last 30 to 40 years, they may be
the "last straw" - not the "only straw".

I don't want to stray into social issues such as the trend to assign blame.
I don't think discussion of that would be productive whether I agree with
you or not. Likewise with the subject Mr. Reed raises about "the vast
majority of the overweight people I know are simply
unwilling to make the changes in their eating and lifestyle needed . . ." I
am interested in seeing further research done which will facilitate the
changes necessary for that "vast majority" (myself included) enabling them
to *become* willing.

Fifteen years ago, thanks to the help of nicotine patches, I quit a
thirty-year smoking habit. It is likely that I would have failed without the
patch. Let us fight the overweight epidemic with all of our weapons and
find new ones. Let's not give up on that vast majority by labeling them weak
or unwilling. There may or not be a patch for them, but why not look for
one?

I gotta go get some coffee. I just reread what I wrote am I'm not even sure
what I said. Mebbe you can figger out what I mean, though.

Ciao,
Rich S.

Rich S. wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.

snip

Oh Yeah! We're the FIRST generation to have Michael Jackson! :0) :-)


Ha, ha, ha... True enough, but I don't consider surgery to be genetic! :-)


Seriously, though I'm not disputing that environmental factors are
important. At the same time I cannot discount the other factors the article.
Those other things: genetic disposition to different metabolic rates, leptin
resistance, leptin levels, increased triglycerides, a virus previously
unknown - may have always been there and are just now being investigated.

If the changes you mention have come in the last 30 to 40 years, they may be
the "last straw" - not the "only straw".

I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
factor by far. If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.


I don't want to stray into social issues such as the trend to assign blame.
I don't think discussion of that would be productive whether I agree with
you or not. Likewise with the subject Mr. Reed raises about "the vast
majority of the overweight people I know are simply
unwilling to make the changes in their eating and lifestyle needed . . ." I
am interested in seeing further research done which will facilitate the
changes necessary for that "vast majority" (myself included) enabling them
to *become* willing.

The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
burn many calories! :-)


Fifteen years ago, thanks to the help of nicotine patches, I quit a
thirty-year smoking habit. It is likely that I would have failed without the
patch. Let us fight the overweight epidemic with all of our weapons and
find new ones. Let's not give up on that vast majority by labeling them weak
or unwilling. There may or not be a patch for them, but why not look for
one?

My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
choices and investing some work. I don't watch much TV at all anymore,
but one of the few people on the tube I have any respect for is Dr.
Phil. He's the first one in a long time to routinely tell people to
look in the mirror to see both the source of their problems and the
solution.


I gotta go get some coffee. I just reread what I wrote am I'm not even sure
what I said. Mebbe you can figger out what I mean, though.

I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree. You
are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
disagree.

I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
factor by far.

Faith without "a shred of evidence" is wonderful.

If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.

I never asserted that.

The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
burn many calories! :-)

Life is rarely simple.

My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
choices and investing some work.

No sense using the saw. Just beat it off with the hammer. If it was good
enough fer dad, it's good enough fer me.

I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree.

Nope. I think you said that.

You are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
disagree.

That may be one way to phrase it. I would liken it to the choice a surgeon
makes when he chooses to use anaesthetic to perform an operation, rather
than just saw the leg off. Yeah, mebbe there are those who can grit their
teeth and take it. Does that make them better than those who would rather
forego the pain? I don't think so. But who cares anyway? The objective is to
get the operation performed successfully, not to sit back in self-righteous
indignation and say, "I did it, so you have to do it the same way". That's
B.S. All this crap of pointing fingers, blaming people, telling them they're
wimps unless they can do it by themselves, has no place outside of Marine
boot camp. It may make you feel good to do it, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.

Nobody is arguing the physical facts of weight loss. What I am saying is
that we need to develop effective solutions so that everyone who wants to
lose weight can do it. You can tell me a hundred times that it works - that
doesn't change the fact that your way is not working for many people. Go
ahead, puff out your chest, feel good that you can hit the gym or the
bicycle, but that doesn't solve the epidemic, my friend.

I'd like to add that I value your opinions on several other subjects. I just
think you're not really seeing the problem on this one.

Ciao,
Rich S

Rich S. wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
factor by far.


Faith without "a shred of evidence" is wonderful.

There's lots of evidence. Do a little research. I'm not going to do it
for you.



If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans

have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.


I never asserted that.

I don't recall who asserted that genetics was behind obesity, but
someone in this thread did or at least made a strong insinuation to that
end.


The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
burn many calories! :-)


Life is rarely simple.

Nor easy. Controlling one's weight is hard work. You either do it in a
job that requires hard work (I had no weight control issues when I
worked as a logger) or you work hard off the job exercising.


My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
choices and investing some work.


No sense using the saw. Just beat it off with the hammer. If it was good
enough fer dad, it's good enough fer me.

Sorry, but using will power is the right tool for the job. Using
bandaid approaches is the wrong tool.


I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree.


Nope. I think you said that.

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.


You are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
disagree.


That may be one way to phrase it. I would liken it to the choice a surgeon
makes when he chooses to use anaesthetic to perform an operation, rather
than just saw the leg off. Yeah, mebbe there are those who can grit their
teeth and take it. Does that make them better than those who would rather
forego the pain? I don't think so. But who cares anyway? The objective is to
get the operation performed successfully, not to sit back in self-righteous
indignation and say, "I did it, so you have to do it the same way". That's
B.S. All this crap of pointing fingers, blaming people, telling them they're
wimps unless they can do it by themselves, has no place outside of Marine
boot camp. It may make you feel good to do it, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

Nice try, but not even close to being a good analogy. Surgery isn't a
lifestyle issue. Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue. A
better analogy is financial responsbility. The bandaid that many want
to apply is either bankruptcy or debt consolidation loans. These are
like liposuction, stomach stapling, etc., with respect to weight loss.
The trouble is, they don't address the underlying issues. Financially,
the issue is that people spend more than they make and don't know how to
budget and live within their means. Consolidating their debt without
addressing the underlying spending habits only gives them more headroom
to get into even deeper trouble. You have to address the
budget/spending issues first and then look at aids such as debt
consolidation loans. Same with weight. You need to address the
lifestyle habits.



I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.


Nobody is arguing the physical facts of weight loss. What I am saying is
that we need to develop effective solutions so that everyone who wants to
lose weight can do it. You can tell me a hundred times that it works - that
doesn't change the fact that your way is not working for many people. Go
ahead, puff out your chest, feel good that you can hit the gym or the
bicycle, but that doesn't solve the epidemic, my friend.

I disagree. 20 years of society telling people that nothing is their
fault and they are victims of McDonald's, Nabsico, or whoever, is what
isn't working.


I'd like to add that I value your opinions on several other subjects. I just
think you're not really seeing the problem on this one.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the coddling and
band-aid solutions HAVE been tried for at least a generation now and
THEY are what have been shown to not work. I think the Dr. Phil
approach should now be given a couple of decades of trial.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote


Nor easy. Controlling one's weight is hard work. You either do it in a
job that requires hard work (I had no weight control issues when I
worked as a logger) or you work hard off the job exercising.
******************

How old were you when you were a logger, Matt? How old are you now?

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.
******************

Now you are actng like you are not too old.


Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue.
*****************
hummm


I think the coddling and
band-aid solutions HAVE been tried for at least a generation now and
THEY are what have been shown to not work. I think the Dr. Phil
approach should now be given a couple of decades of trial.
****************

Dr. Phil occasionally hits on the right answers, and makes good television,
but his insight and solutions are almost always overly simplistic.
--
Jim in NC


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"Morgans" wrote:


Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue.
*****************
hummm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


.. You certainly got that right.

.. It's called ......

.. SMOKING.


At age 44, I was still at my high school weight.
Then I quit smoking. - Twas 4 packs a day.

I gained 30 lbs in the first 30 days of cessation.

I've gained a mere_*half a pound*_a year since.
However, after 22 years of such....
feel free to add it all up.



Barnyard BOb --

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.

Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.

Bye.
Rich S.

"Matt Whiting" wrote...

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.

Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.

Bye.
Rich S.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Can't we all just get along? super smirk



Barnyard BOb - Zig Heil, Mein Fuhrer

Barnyard BOb - wrote:


"Matt Whiting" wrote...

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.

Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.

Bye.
Rich S.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Can't we all just get along? super smirk



Barnyard BOb - Zig Heil, Mein Fuhrer

I think you started it! :-)

Matt

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:18:14 -0400, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Rich S. wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news:ccramb01ome@enews4.

I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
factor by far. If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.


Matt, I don't think it has happened in the last 3-4 decades. I don't
think it is a change in genetic composition but a survival of that
genetic composition in the last 300 years.

When food is scarce, those who's body can utilize whatever food is
available will survive. In the livestock industry, such an animal is
known as an easy keeper. It is a trait of some species and some
breeds.

Example: Several studies of Navajo, Pima and Apache Native Americans
have revealed between 45 and 74 percent have type 2 diabetes. A
condition brought on by obesity. The prevalence for obesity was a
result of culling those ancestors who were not "easy keepers" in
difficult times.

Bottom line is the abundance of food for those with "easy keeper"
genetic composition.